Entrepreneurship: Nature vs. Nurture? A Religious Debate

by Mark Suster on February 27, 2010

People - Twin Premies Sleeping

Nature vs. Nurture.  You’ve all heard the question before.  Let’s talk about kids for a moment.  I grew up believing that human behavior was 20% nature, 80% nurture.  Now that I have two boys (4 and 7) I’m convinced it’s the other way around.  There’s no question that both factors are involved. There have been many studies done on the topic including looking at twins raised in separate families.  There have been studies of adopted children to their natural parents versus the parents that raised them.  I have also seen studies on “birth order.”

As a father, I have strong beliefs on this topic.  I have first-hand observational data.  But I’m not naive enough to think that I am factually right.  I think it is an unknowable topic for which we each have our own observations and points-of-view.  Some data like those in the studies I mentioned above might help influence our thinking but the answer is, in the end, subjective.

So it is with entrepreneurship.  In my bones I’m convinced that entrepreneurs are more nature than nurture although I know both are involved.  Fred Wilson said as much on his blog also.  I wasn’t going to write about it since he had just covered the topic and echoed my point of view.  I have recently written extensively on what I believe the 12 characteristics of an entrepreneur are.

The comments were littered with nature vs. nurture discussions / debates.  Throughout all the discussion I’ve made it clear that my points-of-view are purely subjective.  I think I’m right but I’m not self righteous enough to pretend that my views are scientific.  That is true of all my blog posts.  I have a strong opinion and I put it out there.  I love the debate and I’m willing to alter my views.  It is what I love the most about debates and one of the things I love most about blogging.

So why am I covering the topic now?  Because Vivek Wadhwa has just written a piece on TechCrunch that “proves” the nurture argument quantitatively.  Notes Wadhwa, “Jason [Calacanis], Fred [Wilson], and Silicon Valley VC’s, I’ve got news for you: you’ve got it all wrong. Entrepreneurs aren’t born, they’re made.”  The data in this article is at best, a stretch.

Wadhwa is entitled to his point of view and he may be right.  I suspect he’s not.   To anyone who believes his data proves anything please do me a favor and go read The Black Swan – my favorite book of the past 5 years.  The author, Nassim Taleb is a self proclaimed “skeptical emperiscist” – that is, he is skeptical of any argument that tries to prove the future or any data argument unless he can test it with real data.

In the book Taleb rails against people who use faulty models to predict risk and have self satisfied, false data arguments to convince people of their points of view.  Data are used so convincingly to convince the untrained eye that conclusions are factual.  I said as much in my post that 73.6% of all data is made up.  OK, not literally made up.  I’m prone to hyperbole to get my point across.  But data are given as evidence to draw false conclusions.

Let me give you an example.  If you take 2,000 of the world’s top performing companies, only 29 (1.5%) are run by women.  They run only 15 of the Fortune 500.  It’s a fact, women aren’t good at running companies.  If they were they’d be running more successful companies.  They must be languishing by running many unsuccessful companies.  Data doesn’t lie.  If women were great at running companies they’d be running more of the successful companies.  In fact, data proves that white, middle-aged men are the best at running companies because they run the most successful ones.  Of course I don’t believe this argument.  But you can take data to say whatever you want to say by using it out of context.

I wish Vivek Wadhwa would have given his arguments of why he believes in nurture, given some data to outline his views and then stated honestly that the answer is still subjective.  In fact, when you have studies done by the Kauffman Foundation to the tune of $50 million coupled with a professor (Mr. Wadhwa) one could even point out the obvious bias that people who teach have in saying the answer is “nurture.”  I don’t think he’s overtly biased but all subjective analyses bring in bias.  See this wikipedia link on this topic – it’s called “confirmation bias

I’m an ex entrepreneur.  My views are formed from those experiences.  I’m biased, too.  I worked closely with hundreds of other entrepreneurs.  I’m now a VC that funds entrepreneurs.  I have lots of empirical evidence from which to draw my conclusions.  But I’m still biased by my experiences and am willing to admit that.

Also, I went and read the actual paper Mr. Wadhwa wrote.  Turns out he collaborated with a friend of mine that I respect, Z Holly.  The paper is surprisingly much more balanced in its assertions than this TechCrunch article.  If you’re interested in the topic and the data it is a worthwhile paper and you should read it.  The paper even goes as far as saying, “our research cannot be generalized to the entire population of entrepreneurs in the United States, it is meant to be illustrative of the backgrounds of entrepreneurs.”

I suspect Mr. Wadhwa used hyperbole in his TechCrunch blog post to get more readers to look at his work.  If that is the case I suspect he achieved his goals.  But I’m opposed to using data to “prove” unprovable facts because I know that readers are often susceptible to this kind of data manipulation.

My views are as follows:

  • Many people want to cling to the “nurture” argument because it’s more pleasant.  We all like to believe we can be taught to be great performers.  We can be taught to be better – no doubt – but no necessarily to be truly exceptional
  • Because I believe in the nature more than nurture debate in humans I’m already biased to believe that you have certain characteristics as a child that make you more pre-disposed to be a successful entrepreneur.  You may be a better communicator, have a higher IQ, be more of a natural leader, be more persuasive, be more analytical, etc. from a young age.
  • Before getting slammed in the comments – I’m not saying it’s only nature.  There is of course much nurture and culture weaved in.  But I believe that nature is stronger.  For example, I believe that the data on the studies of identical twins raised by different parents show that the IQ link is much more strongly correlated with DNA than the parents that raised you.
  • So going into a startup scenario you bring these innate skills or you don’t.  At the margin you can make yourself better at sales, product design, marketing, leadership, capital raising, etc. so it’s not pointless to want to improve.  But some people are going to be more likely to succeed than others.
  • Even if you believe in the nurture over nature in raising humans I believe that you are mostly a formed character by the time you start your company.  Your attributes (whether nature or nurture) are formed and hard to change.
  • I mostly subscribe to the 10,000 hours argument that Malcolm Gladwell made in his book Outliers.  People who are naturally talented still differentiate themselves by having put in the effort in the areas that are important for success.  You’re not born into being a world-class software developer.  If you have the innate DNA PLUS you put in the 10,000 hours then you are more likely to be at the top of your game
  • When I look at the attributes that I feel are most important in a startup CEO: tenacity, street smarts, the mental flexibility to pivot, resiliency, leadership / inspiration, work ethic, attention to detail, competitiveness, decisiveness and integrity – I think these all fall into the 80% nature territory.  Or at least 73.6% nature ;-)  The one other attribute – domain experience  - is by default nurture.
  • You don’t need to be great at all of these attributes to be part of a successful startup team.  But I believe the CEO needs to possess many of these traits.  Of course you don’t have do be great at all 12 skills.  Very few people ever would be.

Here are some assumptions in Wadhwa’s article where I believe the truthiness comes across with data assertions:

  • “My team surveyed 549 successful entrepreneurs” – that’s a good start.  I like surveys.  I prefer some data to no data.  He’s already pointed out in his work that this isn’t statistically significant but “illustrative.”  I’m OK with statements like, “here’s what the CEO’s and CTO’s told us and that supports our view of the world” but I’m NOT OK with the inference that “I surveyed 549 executives and therefore this is scientific.”  It is not.  He doesn’t use the words scientific but I believe it is implied.  James Gillmore in the comments section offers these words to Fred Wilson, “I’d say this highly statistical evidence doesn’t counter your original stance.”  James’s overall point isn’t wrong.  I just take issue with the words “highly statistical.”  It is not highly statistical and yet it has the aura of highly statistical.  So anybody who doesn’t know better assumes that these data are “conclusive.”  They are not.
  • “We found that the majority didn’t have entrepreneurial parents.  We found that 52% of the successful entrepreneurs were the first in their immediate families to start a business” What is implied is that if it were nurture then your parents would be great entrepreneurs. Just like the way that all sports stars and all rock stars have famous parents, right?  This argument is flawed.  First, your parents may have had the DNA characteristics to be a successful entrepreneur but life’s circumstances might not have led them to those careers.  Or maybe your parents had the right DNA but the 10,000 hours weren’t there.  PC’s weren’t there.  The Internet wasn’t there.  So they chose other careers.  Or maybe your parents didn’t have the DNA but you did.  Kind of like a guy who can hit a 98 mile-per-hour fastball might have had a dad who couldn’t.  Or … maybe entrepreneurship is nurture and not nature.  Maybe I’m wrong.  But this argument, wrapped in “data” is false evidence and is flawed.  What your parents did does not feature in the argument about whether entrepreneurs are born or made.
  • “They didn’t even have entrepreneurial aspirations while going to school.” Oh, gotcha.  If you didn’t have entrepreneurial aspirations when you went to school then the attributes of a successful entrepreneur must not be innate, right?  They must be learned.  Otherwise you would have had a life-long obsession with building the next Facebook.  The truth couldn’t be further from this.  I’m not claiming I’m a great entrepreneur.  But I’ll tell you that I did start my first company in high school.  I sold t-shirts for the basketball cheering section (called the River Rats) and I sold letters to go on the back so you could call yourself by your nickname.  All the profits were in the letters.  I cleared hundreds.  In college I threw keg parties and again cleared hundres of dollars.  But my aspiration in college was “to get a good job.”  In 1990 that’s what I was trained to want to do – impress my parents and their friends.  I don’t think that everybody with the skills to be an entrepreneur knows that they wanted to do it when they went to school.  This data assertion is bogus.  It is wrapped in the authority of a “conclusive” data study with the pronouncement that Jason, Fred and Silicon Valley VCs are “wrong.”  What you thought you wanted to do in school has no bearing on whether you were made or born to be an entrepreneur.
  • “VC and former entrepreneur Brad Feld also blogged about how many of his frat buddies at MIT had become successful entrepreneurs. Were all of these people born to be entrepreneurs as well? I don’t think so.” Um, are you seriously drawing this link?  Please read up on selection bias.  People who go to MIT are at top of our country in intelligence.  They are more technical than people who go to other universities.  Brad Feld and his cohorts graduated in the late 80′s and worked through the 90′s when many more technology companies were built that favored super-bright, technical people.  Brad himself seems to have had entrepreneurial tendencies and certainly technical tendencies and therefore was more likely to surround himself with like minded people.  Therefore it is very conceivable that this group of people were more likely to be of the right DNA to be entrepreneurs AND were born at the right time ala Outliers.  I don’t know that the truth is – I have an assertion.  Wadhwa presents his arguments and his data as more conclusive.  It’s like saying, “data shows that people who go to the Stanford MBA program are more likely to be successful entrepreneurs than those who go to Harvard,” (I don’t know if this is true – I’m making up the situation) and using this data to say that these students were taught better by Stanford.  It’s very conceivable that they chose to go to Stanford precisely because they are more entrepreneurial by nature and they wanted to be closer to Silicon Valley!

OK, I don’t even know Vivek Wadhwa.  I’m guessing he’s a smart person.  I’m guessing he produces great work.  I have no desire to pick a fight with him. He’s got a louder megaphone than I do as a TechCrunch contributor.  But Vivek, please don’t present data on the topic of nature vs. nurture and assert that you have statistically proven the “truth.”  And if you do … please at least provide more compelling data, graphs and conclusions.  Otherwise, please state your opinion as exactly that.

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  • I've got to say I'm struggling to understand the 'what does it matter?' question. Nature? Nurture? What's dominant? Why do you care? What difference does it make? What would you do differently if there ever was an answer like 60% nature/40% nurture?

    Surely the only important question is whether the entrepreneur in question has what it takes to be successful in their current situation at precisely that point in time. The answer to that will always be a judgement call by the person asking the question who has hopefully makes that by putting in the hours to work with the girl or guy to see what makes them tick. Anyone who makes a decision based on what school she went to or whether she had a parent that started their own business is lazy and doesn't deserve success if indeed it comes their way.

    I have a father that started his own company when we was 30 and still runs it today at over 70. I was lucky enough to go to a good school where I studied reasonably hard to receive good results and went to university as a result and got a degree in engineering. None of that has a decisive bearing on whether my venture www.involvd.com will be success and I hope that, when it comes to seeking investment, no-one tries to make a decision based on this history. If they do alarm bells will ring loud and clear and I'll need to think about whether this is the right person to partner with.

    Ignore all of that is what I say. Don't waste your time thinking about it because it's just noise and gets in the way of the hard task of thinking about what's really important. Having said that I do love a good old bit of statistics bashing so thanks for putting in the time to do it Mark.

    Anyway, enough procrastinating from me, I need to get back to building a wildly successful business!
  • The high percentage of entrepreneurs coming from entrepreneurial families is an equally strong argument for nature as it is nurture. Would not being involved in (or observing) your parents' business from an early age count as nurture? Perhaps if a study were to find a marked drop in entrepreneurship among adopted children within entrepreneurial families, you could say there was a strong case for nature as the explanation.

    Although I disagree with Mark's views, I have to agree with him that Vivek's post did not prove the nurture argument.
  • joshuacherry
    Mark I have just been introduced to your blog by Fred Wilson and been enjoying catching up on all of your recent postings. While I am certainly not an expert on this, I have found the same thing you have and think folks generally overstate the impact of nurture when looking at how people behave. Perhaps it is what you alluded to, to think otherwise has significant implications on how they see their world.

    If you are interested more about this topic, I found a great book a couple of years ago which dives into the science behind this in a very accessible way (ala New Yorker'ish). It was called the Nurture Assumption and was written by Judith Rich Harris. It was national book award finalist and her background is writing and updating university pych 101 textbooks. So the whole book is grounded in the research. It was a fascinating ride though the Twin Studies, Ethic Studies where 1st and 2nd gen kids assimilate into US culture.

    Given the nature of how you think about this topic, I think you will find it a quick and interesting read. It will also provide more examples to reinforce what I think is a pretty sound hypothesis.
  • chrisstatham
    I'm an entrepreneur and entrepreneur trainer. I have very similar characteristics to my brother, though we lead very different lives. I think my single biggest push is my schooling. I went to a school which was academically, sport and financially above me, and so I feel I have something to prove to myself and former classmates. I would say that entrepreneurs are a mixture of nature and nurture. We are a fairly "rare breed"; most people go for the easier life and employment.
  • Like you said, this is just like everything else - there needs to first be underling, innate talent (nature). I tend to give nurture a bit more weight though but not because of the teaching/learning element. I think of nurture as also referring to chance or luck. Where you are born, the way your life plays our, things you are exposed to, etc. all have a huge impact on your ability to realize the full potential of innate abilities. With billions of people in the world it is hard for me to imagine there are not many others just as good, if not better, than the best athletes, entrepreneurs, etc. who just didn't get the same chances and therefore were never able to make the most of their innate abilities.
  • Ovi_Jacob
    Mark - Great post. Thanks as always.
    I enjoyed your 12 traits series very much, linked to it on the comments section of Fred Wilson's blog following his post.
    Interesting to debate...for my money, (and in your words) jfdi
    - that's a good first step to knowing who's got it and usually this is not learned.
  • Prior to the TechCrunch editorial, in response to Fred Wilson's discussion on the "nature vs. nurture" question, I had the below concerns with the "data":

    First, there are a million disparate ways to define what an entrepreneur is. A small family business owner, retail franchisee, independent CPA, mid-cap CEO or product manager at a 5-person technology start-up are all entrepreneurs (as well as the job creators of our economy). However, the profile of a high-growth (VC-backed) technology entrepreneur is very different from the entrepreneur who opens a Quizno’s or owns and operates a family business. So I would want to know how Mr. Wadhwa defines entrepreneur putting much stock in his findings and their application to the sort of entrepreneurs most of us are discussing.

    Second, there is definitely one common trait linked to any sort of entrepreneur: failure. Most of the characteristics we discuss around this topic are tied to someone's aptitude for entrepreneurship generally. In fact, most assessment tools look for characteristics that tell you whether or not you’re cut out to be an entrepreneur, not whether or not you’ll be a good one. And most entrepreneurs fail. So, does Mr. Wadhwa look at all entrepreneurs or just those that have achieved some definition of success (for me, a previous wealth-creating exit)?"

    I haven't yet read the full report, so will probably have the answer to these questions shortly...

    In terms of my opinion, I absolutely agree with Mark - the characteristics that matter are mostly innate. But that isn't the point and I certainly don't believe there is a single formula (learned or innate) on which we can or should all agree. But, since I gotta throw my $0.02 in with everyone else, my belief is that SUCCESSFUL growth company entrepreneurs demonstrate patterns of excellence in all they do throughout their life - whether it's academic achievement; rapid, large corporate environment success; linguistic skills, or; athletic accomplishments. Further, they demonstrate excellence in multiple pursuits, not just one thing. You find someone who is among the best at what they do in 3 or more distinct instances (professional or personal), then they will likely be a strong growth company entrepreneur - regardless of what their parents do, or what they thought about in school. This drive for excellence, and the talent required to get there are MOSTLY due to nature, in my opinion. We call this Adaptive Excellence. To be clear, the markers for Adaptive Excellence (track record) CORRELATE to future entrepreneurial success. The cause, or behaviors/skills that cause, success will be the basis for ongoing debate on this and other forums. My point is that it would be easier (though, perhaps, boring) if we cared more about spotting the markers for entrepreneurial success in someone's track record/results, instead of their DNA or formative experiences.

    Great debate and color to a topic about which many people have passionate beliefs. Pretty sure that I added nothing to the cause either way...
  • Let me ask an easy question: Do entrepreneurs have an above-average propensity to take risks? As it turns out… Uh, no. On average, they do not differ from the rest of us.

    That study was 30 years ago, at a time where entrepreneurship research assumed, quite naturally, that there was something called the “entrepreneurial personality.” We got over it. So should everyone. (But it is more complicated than merely “nature” vs. “nurture”. And, taking a scientific approach has already paid dividends –I suspect very few of you are current with existing science on this –and approaching the complexities will continue to bear fruit of practical value to entrepreneurs, educators, even VCs. Mark , Vivek– up for a study?)

    How about we add in some cutting edge social science? Mark Suster & Fred Wilson’s gut reaction that “nature” is critical is understandable. Entrepreneurship experts fell for that same gut reaction decades ago & it took forever to get past it. (It made us a joke in scholarly circles, a hole we’re still digging out of.) Mark – you asked for data – well, decades of work found essentially zero data that supported a distinctive “entrepreneurial personality” & what little we found offered no practical value (eg, Kelly Shaver’s great article nailed it way back in 1991). But…

    Who doesn’t want to think of Entrepreneurs as Special, even Magical People?
    They do such wondrous things that often seem far beyond what mere mortals can do. Look at Mark’s own list of 12 “traits” that he looks for in entrepreneurs. A person with those characteristics should be able to move mountains. (As an entrepreneur myself, I’d sure love to think I was one of them but… LOL)

    What are we really measuring? Of course, that’s the first fly in the ointment – we are often describing what any great performer might reflect. So are we not identifying great humans? (Not a bad basis for choosing people to help but…)

    Dynamic processes & predicting vs explaining:
    And do we care more about entrepreneurial people or about the decision to pursue an opportunity (intention) and to implement that decision (action). Thus t second ‘fly’ is that if we care about people starting businesses (effectively) we are dealing with dynamic processes where people and situations evolve, often quickly & discontinuously. That means being able to explain brilliantly need not allow us to predict anything. Right now we explain great entrepreneurs much, much better than we can predict them. (And isn’t *predicting* more valuable to VCs?)

    DNA or Human Capital?
    The third is if my parents were entrepreneurial, how do we know if my entrepreneurial mojo is from shared DNA or from a transfer of human capital?? Lots of MDs have doctor kids… and we know that it’s a matter of human capital far more than genetic capital (look up Lentz & Laband who studied doctors and… entrepreneurs.)

    Fourth, is simply parsimony –we can explain –and predict!- better with cognitive models such as simple models of entrepreneurial intentions. Human intentions are basically grounded on perceptions that the behavior is (a) desirable and is (b) feasible, all we need then is a trigger (bit.ly/a39PzE)

    My own research area focuses on how entrepreneurs think, applying cognitive & cognitive developmental psychology to how we learn to see opportunities. This has taken me into a deep dive into neuroscience, looking for biological underpinnings of entrepreneurial behavior. Are entrepreneurs wired differently? Again, that evidence is sorely lacking. Let me suggest a look at two interesting volumes published by Springer that bring together the best minds on this topic, Zoltan Acs & Dave Audretsch’s “International Handbook of Entrepreneurship Research” (bit.ly/cE2qp5 for sample chapter**) and Alan Carsrud & Malin Brannback’s new “Understanding the Entrepreneurial Mind” (bit.ly/a39PzE is from that **)

    If you buy Howard Stevenson’s great classic definition of entrepreneurship as “pursuing opportunity without regard to resources controlled”… that is saying (in Stevenson’ own words) that *heart* of entrepreneurship is seeing & acting on opportunities. We don’t find opportunities, we construct them. We can be more alert (Israel Kirzner’s clever term) to certain cues/signals but there is still a set of cognitive processes involved. And like most human phenomena, those processes vary across both persons & situations (see Rick Bagozzi’s recent work). Models that only look at person-level characteristics are worse at explaining and far worse at predicting.

    Is there evidence to support “nature”-Sure.
    I am stunned that nobody has cited the growing field of behavioral genetics. Did you know that there is a significant heritability coefficient for job satisfaction? Genetic influences are much more widespread than most realize (& it’s not terribly PC, of course) Scott Shane argues that self-employment really does have a heritability coefficient that is clearly non-zero. However, in most studies we find that even where nature is significant, nurture trumps nature (and the interaction of nature & nurture often them both).

    Neuroentrepreneurship?
    However, the deeper I look at neuroscience shows how remarkably malleable our biological systems are. Life experiences can and do mold our wiring. What we do see is that entrepreneurs engage in cognitive processes that are available to all of us, choosing mindfully or not to do so. An example: Barbara Sahakian’s lab at Cambridge found that successful (serial) entrepreneurs and a matched set of top managers were equally great at ‘cold’ cognition (emotion-independent) however, on emotion-dependent “hot” cognition, the entrepreneurs were consistently superior (bit.ly/a2fAWR). Abilities at ‘hot’ cognition are clearly learned but there’s also the choice to engage in it.

    Neuroplasticity.
    Returning to my first question about risk-taking propensity, we do know that people with more dopamine receptors in their brains tend to take more risks, prefer novelty, etc. (eg, Zald’s work at Vandy). However, we also know that people who take more risks… grow more dopamine receptors Neuroplasticity is very real. So why don’t we look at how we *grow* great entrepreneurial thinking?

    “Experience is not what happens to you, it’s what you do with what happens to you.”
    Epictetus was right. Life experiences also change how we structure knowledge. Think about how novices evolve into experts- they typically gain more knowledge content but they are even more likely to have very different knowledge structures (sometimes even simpler than novices’).

    “Growing Up Entrepreneurial”
    thus might thus be better thought of as going through critical developmental experiences that mold how we think in ways that support, reinforce & grow the entrepreneurial mindset (bit.ly/9VyUJm). Everyone of Mark’s great list of 12 key characteristics can arise from the right kinds of developmental experiences. [Mark & Vivek, if you’ve read this far- again, would you be interested in a serious research project? It’s very fundable!] In fact, the cognitive developmental model is a far simpler explanation than torturing the data to find a “nature” explanation.

    Anyway, isn’t the real question: “Do we want to explain great entrepreneurs or predict them?”
    Or put another, better way” “Don’t we want to know how we grow into great entrepreneurs?”

    Anyone interested in pursuing this, give me a holler – at worst, I can probably connect you with a great scholar in your own backyard. Thanks for indulging me here!

    Entrepreneur Up!
    Norris Krueger, Recovering Entrepreneur, PhD
    @entrep_thinking ; norris.krueger@@gmail.com



    ** the only chapters I had handy were my own, but they address issues relevant here. But I urge anyone interested to look at both of these volumes. Sorry to be self-referencing –I have wonderful colleagues globally who could argue this better with their own great work.
  • Wow. Thank you for the incredibly informed post. I find many of these studies (the genetic influences / heritability) fascinating. I have read some in the past. Listen, Norris. I don't doubt your studies and I've never said it's all nature and no nurture / environment. The point of my post was to rail against a weak data inference in Vivek's TechCrunch post. When you read the comments section to his post it's clear many people don't see through his data problems. As for any problems people may have with any of my logic - well, at least I've advertised it as subjective to begin with.
  • Thanks for the compliment -- it's kinda my passion, LOL! I do know you're looking solely at the data's weaknesses but you evoked a wider range of comments. Hmmmm. Wasn't this an interesting Rorschach test for commenters' own gut reactions?

    I'm probably more forgiving of highly preliminary data; it's not how I'd do it & it would be unlikely to pass muster for a journal. Vivek is a great champion for entrepreneurs, not just entrepreneurship** but not yet immersed in (corrupted by? LOL) the entrepreneurship scholarly community. (Hence my offer to Vivek & you to do more studies!)

    But you've both done a service by putting this ancient (but obviously still lively) debate out there. The deep desire to see entrepreneurs as special people still burns in our guts (even mine, I fear).

    When you have two competing hypotheses with strong evidence and passionate belief for both... one clever (if difficult) exercise is for the two sides to design a study that attempts to resolve the debate. Now wouldn't THAT be fun for you & Vivek? Let me know if I can help!

    And, again, thanks -- Entrepreneur Up!
  • Thanks Norris for bringing some light into the debate that has been dark till now.
  • The nature vs nurture debate is very interesting but what about if you HAD to be entreprenuarial to feed your family?

    I meet some amazingly street smart Afghans who have maximized what little assets (usually things, not money) who live a very comfortable life.

    I think a study should be done only in Third World Countries. You might gain a clearer picture of what it takes to be succesful entrepreneur without all the technological bias in the western world.
  • Agreed. As they say, "necessity of the mother of all invention." But even in these countries some people show resourcefulness and others don't. Same thing I understand happens in war zones.
  • Roko
    No one was born to be a great entrepreneur. Yet some people were born ready to be great entrepreneurs. There is a dichotomy. Some people are born with many attributes needed to be successful entrepreneurs. If they cultivate these qualities, they can almost effortlessly have great successes. In this way some people were also born with physical attributes that makes it 20 times easier for them to be great athletes.

    So are you born entrepreneur? NO. But could you have been born with an unfair advantage? YES.
  • Yes, that's the point. It gets a bit lost because I extended to 2,000+ words!
  • Interesting conversation about nature or nurture. It reminds me of a brilliant post by Steve Blank http://entrepreneur.venturebeat.com/2009/09/23/... which really impressed me and which tended to veer towards the lack of nurture & chaotic dysfunctional family environment that can spawn entrepreneurial talent. This quote is particularly potent:
    "One possible path might be to raise children in an environment where parents are struggling in their own lives and they create an environment where fighting, abusive or drug/alcohol related behavior is the norm.
    In this household, nothing would be the same from day to day, the parents would constantly bombard their kids with dogmatic parenting (harsh and inflexible discipline) and they would control them by withholding love, praise and attention. Finally we could make sure no child is allowed to express the “wrong” emotion. Children in these families would grow up thinking that this behavior is normal.
    (If this seems unimaginably cruel to you, congratulations, you had a great set of parents. On the other hand, if the description is making you uncomfortable remembering some of how you were raised – welcome to a fairly wide club.)"
    Another point of view & I can relate extremely well to Steve's reflection.
    Thanks for starting this conversation Mark.
  • davidkpark
    You have a little University of Chicago economists way of dissecting an argument. This is a compliment. I'll have a blog post later about how you can setup a research design to begin to disentangle the nature vs nurture argument for entrepreneurs. However, let me quibble about your Taleb and Gladwell conclusions.

    Taleb's main critique with predictive statistical models (even if the data can be trusted) is that it's based on the normal distribution and the problem is that the black swans are in essence the outliers. Therefore, models assuming y ~ Normal(0,1) will never be able to predict black swans.

    Talking about Outliers. The nice thing about Gladwell's regurgitation of social scientists is that he highlights the importance of hard work (ie 10000 hrs) but more importantly the role that institutions play (ie hockey players and their birthdays). So maybe the more important question is not, are entrepreneurs born or made, but what institutional arrangements can we setup to maximize the success of entrepreneurs.
  • thanks, David (I think?).

    re: Taleb - yes, I know that his big data argument is against using the normal "bell" distribution curve plus 2 standard deviations to measure risk probabilities and he goes into an esoteric discussion of fractals. But he spends a lot of time in the book more generally railing against "professionals." These being people in suits who pretend to know everything and misrepresent data that they don't really understand. This was my Taleb reference.

    re: Outliers - great points. And if you believe his arguments - a great case for not having your kids skip a grade!
  • davidkpark
    I forgot when it started (I think in the 1980s) but there was a shift among higher income parents to have their child be the oldest in the class, ie delay kindergarten. They recognized that's there's many benefits that gets compounded over time if their child is the oldest in the class, ie more socially, academically, and physically developed than their peers. There's an NYC rumor that children with May or older birth dates have a more difficult time getting accepted into the top tier schools for this very reason. As a first cut analysis, someone should see if there's any correlation between SAT scores and what month they started K.
  • Hi Mark, here's my take on the issue:

    http://mikeschinkel.com/blog/are-entrepreneurs-...
  • honam
    I used to be a nature guy but have come more over the the nurture camp. I've seen plenty of people who are not as "talented" do very well because they applied the effort (the 10,000 hours that Mark mentions) and became really great at something - music, programming, art, entrepreneurship, etc. Over the years, I've seen many "plodders" (what Jim Collins refers to as Hedgehogs vs Foxes) do quite well and overtake quick starters, the "naturals." I wrote a blog post called Foxes and Hedgehogs in Silicon Valley a few years ago which covers this topic.

    As a parents, my wife and I agreed that we would do our children a great disservice to make them believe that nature were more important than nurture. There is plenty of research to show that people who believe that they can improve by working harder tend to do better in life. People who believe that nature is more important tend to work not quite as hard and give up more easily if they don't think that they are naturally talented at something. Even if we personally believed in nature over nurture, we decided that we should make every effort to make our children believe in their power to control their own destinies and not blame nature for their failings.

    That said, even though I personally like and believe in Vivek's point of view, Mark made great points about the flaws in Vivek's argument. I certainly would have hoped for more compelling "data" after $50mm in research!

    One major flaw in Vivek's argument that I'm surprised was not pointed out is that he reaches the wrong conclusion based on his own data. To say that 52% of successful entrepreneurs did not come from an entrepreneurial family leads to the exact opposite conclusion Vivek drew. Think about it this way, what percentage of people are entrepreneurs? 10%? If a very small minority of people are entrepreneurs but almost half of successful entrepreneurs come from entrepreneurial families, doesn't that support nature vs nurture?

    Another commenter pointing out the flaw in logic referred to Oscar winners. If 48% of all Oscar winners come from families that had Oscars, it would lead to the conclusion that coming from a Oscar winning family has a HUGE impact on the probability of winning an Oscar. You would not make the argument that 52% of Oscar winners come from families that have never won an Oscar as "evidence" and "data" to support the point that it doesn't really matter that you were born into a family of Oscar winners! (This point is probably more clear because I assume that people know how rare it is to win an Oscar!).
  • Perfectly said. Thank you.
  • honam
    Mark, I just posted this comment on Vivek's comment stream:

    Thought I’d share a great Peter Drucker quote which I’ve used in presentations to potential entrepreneurs at conferences:

    “People who seek certainty are unlikely to make a good entrepreneurs. But such people are unlikely to do well in a host of other activities as well – in politics, or in command positions in military service, or as the captain of an ocean liner. In all such pursuits, decisions have to be made, and the essence of any decision is uncertainty.

    But everyone who can face up to decision making can learn to be an entrepreneur and to behave entrepreneurially. Entrepreneurship is behavior rather than personality trait.” – Peter Drucker

    That said, I think confusion is caused by the fact that there are a small number of people in this world who are quite special – people who have touched our lives and made a difference in the world. As a VC, I look to work with such people. But such people are also our exceptional teachers, scientists, musicians, artists, and other leaders in their fields. Such people have more in common with the best entrepreneurs than the average entrepreneur. Being an entrepreneur is NOT a personality trait or some special DNA that only entrepreneurs have.

    Here is a blog post I wrote about what special qualities great teachers share with great entrepreneurs. There is more commonality there than between a great entrepreneur and the average entrepreneur:

    http://www.blog.altosventures.com/vc/2010/01/wh...
  • honam
    S0rry I accidentally hit post while editing the comment. I made a few more edits after the first post.
  • eugmandel
    Mark, I enjoyed reading both the original piece by Vivek Wadhwa and your response. I tried to make up my mind which side (nature or nurture) do I agree with, but then caught myself thinking "does it really matter?".
    I agree that "it is an unknowable topic...". A lot of religious arguments make an extremely interesting topic for a dinner conversation, but have little practical implications. If it's nature (or nurture), will I live my life differently tomorrow? Probably not.
  • Totally. Like religion, I'm not obsessed by which side of the debate somebody is on. It's an unknowable topic and I respect others' beliefs. My beef is with people who conclusively assert arguments with data that don't lead to conclusive results. It's a different argument.
  • I believe that in addition to nature and nurture there is a third element "Luck".
  • For sure! But then don't forget the old adage, "the harder I work the luckier I become!" ;-)
  • I read a lot on the nature/nurture debate in many areas (that's because I am boring and the study of mind is something I do for fun in my spare time). I felt compelled to comment when Fred blogged this last week and I am glad you take the Wadha column to task.

    I find a lot of twisted arguments in the nurture-first side of the debate - it's almost like they REALLY want it to be true so they will cling to any tenuous argument (always the sign that something is up). In one of the sections you highlighted, I don't know how you can draw any meaningful conclusion from "52% of entrepreneurs didn't have entrepreneurial parents" - what that tells me is there is virtually no correlation there either way, so any causal relationship is impossible to deduce from such data.

    But the point that really bugs me is the "no aspirations before school" nonsense. Startups and investing in them is a pattern matching game to a degree, as predicting the future is so hard. Most entrepreneurs I meet have a similar record to mine, they spot an opportunity and they just go for it (most people who don't, don't end up as entrepreneurs):

    - when I was 10 I decided I should be on a TV show that I watched and that I could do it better, so I asked my parents if I could call them. I did, they gave me a spot.
    - my first cashflow positive business was when I was 11, when I bought candy in bulk and operated an illegal tuck shop at my school, out of the pool-table room
    - at 15 I spotted that being at an all boys boarding school in England, there was a place in the market for arbitraging the risk involved with buying playboys from stores who turned a blind eye to the 18yo age limit and operating a selling exchange for them in the boarding house (yeah, that one made money till I got busted, then it wasn't pretty)
    - at 18 I was part of a team at school who built a T-shirt selling business as part of the Youth Enterprise Scheme, where enterprising high-school students in the UK had to build a business in a set time-frame
    - at 20 I started my first proper business at university building PCs based on parts we imported from the middle-East and selling them to students and small businesses (this paid for me to have a five bedroom house while at University!)
    - at 22 I got laughed out of every funding meeting we could get into pitching setting up one of the first ISPs in the UK ("it's an American fad", "you're two young techies with no experience"... etc.)

    Point is even with a LOT stacked up against me ever getting here, it's no wonder I ended up in Silicon Valley doing startups. And it's no surprise that even when family circumstances caused me to leave here for a few years I ended up back in Silicon Valley doing it all again.

    Like most folks starting companies right now I spend a lot of time at events and in places where I meet and socialize with other founders. Most of them seem to have similar backgrounds.

    Like you if you'd asked me at college, my goal was to get a well-paid job with the big consulting firms - as we all were trained to want. I suspect Mr. Wadha's survey is measuring something else - I would not be surprise if it's actually measuring how many people who aren't naturally entrepreneurial hear success stories at University and figure they want what they see as a quick easy large pay-day. Many natural entrepreneurs end up in the consulting gigs and find themselves bored witless. Many who think there's a payday in startups can leverage their alumni networks so far, and some get somewhere, but most will find the stresses and risks and ups and downs of being an entrepreneur just too hard in the long run, and if they don't get the big pay-day quickly, gravitate back to big companies.

    Anecdotal? Sure. Do I believe that I'm wrong? Not really. Nurture over nature? Just don't buy it.
  • Great story and echoes many successful entrepreneurs. Re: UK vs. US - I have a lot of thoughts on that. I started my first company in the UK and lived there 11 years. But I grew up in the US (to one immigrant parent). I'll save it for a different post, but the high level theme will be, "why the UK psyche is against entrepreneurial success while the US psyche routes them on."
  • Yes you're right... they do seem to beat the entrepreneurial out of you in the UK. Lots of cultural barriers.If you have talent you're routed through to "city" jobs or the big 4/5/whateveritisnowadays consulting firms.

    Risk is very risky as failure is punished harshly. There is a very poor start-up funding infrastructure (with apologies to those working to fix that). Working long hours instead of going to the pub every night is sneered at - because everyone's supposed to be too cool to be seen putting in too much effort for anything.

    It's got worse in the last 20-30 years as well funnily enough. Whereas the 80s had a celebration of the entrepreneur, the anti-Thatcher generation that graduated in the 90s rejected that too. So now we have parts of the country where 50%+ of the jobs are government sector, or make-work jobs to fiddle the unemployment statistics, and sadly there's little incentive for the private sector to pay decent wages. This keeps people trapped in a mindset where they cannot even think about doing a startup. Shame really, as we have a great education system and history of innovation in the UK.

    The US has almost the opposite situation. The place is geared up for entrepreneurialism and there's an acceptance of people trying new things. What does worry me a lot is the state of the education system - the basics, the critical thinking skills. I think there's another advantage of the US that Americans underestimate. Americans are just great team players. You can build a team of people who will work hard for you and put in their all to the best of their abilities, without even thinking about it. That's just what you do right? It makes it easier to pull through tough times and have a win.
  • Very interesting. I am really glad you stuck that bit about Gladwell and 10,000 hours in there. His arguments ring true.

    I was sixth out of seven children. My father was a doctor and inventor. I started my first venture when I was seven. My partner was my best friend and also seven years old. Looking back, it is amazing how our first experience represented all the other ventures I have started (17). We had to ask someone how to spell "fund", then we made a little sign that said "Gerbil FUND" and put it on a coffee mug. Whenever the family sat down to dinner we put the mug in the middle of the table. It took a week to raise the $17.95 in capital we needed to purchase two gerbils. We sold the first batch of baby gerbils back to the pet store for $20. A profit! While the pair were having their second litter of 20 little gerbils my partner's dog got into their cage and wiped us out. Pretty much the story of all my other ventures. Something always happens.

    So, the trouble with surveys is that they study identifiably *successful* entrepreneurs. A huge part of success is luck. So the results are skewed to those that did not run into a crooked financier, get ousted by a crooked partner, get sued by a vindictive employee or competitor, fall afoul of the IRS, or any of the millions of stumbling blocks that entrepreneurs encounter.

    It would be interesting to see a survey of repeat entrepreneurs. They are the ones that have it in 'em, and it has to come out. Not the Steve Cases and Google Boys, but the Richard Bransons.
  • Dave Young
    At some level, I think that the obvious answer here is that both are critical. There is no chance that someone is going to succeed without the right nature, but they also need the right nurturing along the way (even to put them in the right situations in which to succeed). I do agree with Mark that nature is the key gating (and more important) factor, however. That said, I agree with Mark even more about the use of statistics in subjective arguments. Mark quotes Vivek's work as noting "We found that the majority didn’t have entrepreneurial parents. We found that 52% of the successful entrepreneurs were the first in their immediate families to start a business." And this is evidence of nature not being as important? I think that you could more credibly look at this in the other direction, in two ways:

    1. If 48% of successful entrepreneuers had parents who were entrepreneurs, that actually is very high, not low (just because less than a majority). What percentage of people are entrepreneurs? It surely is far less than 48% (of couples)? So 48% is a high number, and actually correlates with the nature argument.

    2. If someone grew up with a parent who is an entrepreneuer, that seems like the perfect example of nurture, not nature. Nature is your inate characteristics, but the example of an entrepreneurial parent is very powerful. The role model of a parent's profession is one that either subtly or overtly guides a lot of early decisions about schools, careers, etc.
  • alainlapter
    In my opinion, the inherent problem with this argument/study is that while one can not quantify "nature", one can argue that you can place a value on the amount of "nurture" that an individual attains (e.g. education, experiences, parents' background, etc). Any statistician can place a value on the latter and, thereby, equate which is most beneficial in succeeding.

    This is not the case, however, for the former. You can not place a value on someone's "nature", with respect to their characteristics and make-up and likelihood of success in one field or another. In my humble opinion, this is where the study is, with all due respect, dubious, or at the very least unreliable to any great degree. Certainly enough to question any inferences, or in this case conclusions, made therefrom.

    As someone who has reviewed surveys numerous times, be it in the context of trademark infringement actions, I would be very interested to review the manner in which the survey was conducted. How would someone inquire as to whether success was based on a respondent's nature? How does one quantify these characteristics? Who were the respondents? How were the questions framed and who conducted the survey? Please don't get me wrong. I am not calling into question the survey's validity, per se, but merely intrigued of how one would quantify characteristics that are as elusive as "nature". Savants are born, not created, even if the right guidance and education can help them hone their skills.

    As an aside, I wholeheartedly agree with my brother's aforementioned comments. We grew up in the same household, had access to the same types of education and opportunities, and I can honestly tell you that I would not succeed in his line of work, no matter how much nurturing was provided to me. His abilities and acumen were forged well before he hit the UPenn campus.
  • Thank you. Perfectly said. More expertly argued than I did. Hmmm. Are you a trained lawyer? ;-)
  • A few random thoughts:

    1. I wish the original paper had also surveyed unsuccessful entrepreneurs; it's hard to find what distinguishes A from B when you look only at A. (And of course, differences aren't necessarily causes.)

    2. Mark, you're focusing on what makes the best start-up CEOs while Vivek's study looked at CEOs and CTOs from existing successful start-ups. Do you believe it's possible to learn to be a successful non-CEO founder; i.e., a person could "work him/herself" into Vivek's group?

    3. One of the arguments for nurture is that there's no link between entrepreneurs and parental entrepreneurship. But this doesn't mean it's learned if you assume that a child's personality is inherent and that a child can have a different personality than the parents. (I won't speculate because my sample space is too small.)
  • Excellent points.
  • 1. Agreed. It is by definition selection bias.
    2. My observations are clearly stated as my subjective views. His observations are stated as "fact." I believe you can learn to be a successful non-CEO founder, yes. But it still requires a core of inherent skills. If you want to be the Chief Scientist and you work in a highly competitive field no amount of nurture can overcome an IQ challenge. Just as an example. If you're more mathematic and less communicative then you're not likely to succeed as the CMO.
    3. Small data set on my side, too. But my hunch is that kids inherit some attributes from their parent's genes and others from extended relatives. My second son looks exactly like his grandmother and not at all like me or my wife. If I assume that physical traits are passed down as well as character traits then I see no reason that temperament can't skip a generation or be a merger of genes.
  • My totally uneducated guess is that personality traits are complex combinations of many genes (the merger as you said) with some environmental triggers.

    Street smarts probably arises from early experiences plus an innate creative problem solving ability. One of Vivek's observations is that you don't find many entrepreneurs at the very top or the very bottom of the economic ladder. My guess is that the genes for street smarts might be there but the streets aren't like anything the rest of us have experienced.

    From what I remember reading in school, personality traits don't change much in adulthood without a "significant emotional event". That could be hard to duplicate in the classroom.
  • Peter C.
    On that last point, it's also just as likely that your grandmother imparted a certain can-do attitude to you and it's something you're imparting on your children or, in other words, you're nurturing your children similarly to how your parents nurtured you.
  • Mark,

    This is a truly awesome post, together with your piece on entrepreneur DNA. I would love to share my own experience with you.

    There is a great quote I came by from an HBS entrpreneurship professor (I forget the source). Entrepreneurship is "the pursuit of opportunity without regard to resources currently controlled".

    In order to do that, you do need to score strongly on your 12 criteria.

    And if you look at some of your criteria its clear that that are determinants could be driven by what happens in utero.
    Take for example risk taking in high-frequency financial trading which can be predicted by the second-to-fourh digit ratio on a hand (http://bit.ly/ce15Bb). Coates et al point to prenatal androgens (i.e. testosterone levels in the womb) as having important organizing effects in the brain, resulting in different adult behaviours.

    And as you point out, the effects are not linear or totally deterministic.

    There are those who become entrepreneurs because they have little other choice. Look at immigrants arriving at a new country, who don't have access to traditional professions or jobs. They often do have access to extended community networks which allow them to build businesses serving those communities. If the timing is right, as for many Indian migrants to the UK in the 1950s and 60s, great businesses can emerge.
    There are those who may have many pop out of the womb on the far end of the distribution, but emerge in cultures where the things that can make one an entrepreneur are not valued. The pastiche of this would be the high-performing child who is driven back to the fat-middle of law or consulting by school, college and parental pressure. I am sure this group keeps many a psychiatrist and divorce lawyer in business as they hit their forties and reality dawns.

    I don't think entrepreneurship can be taught. Because teaching is ultimately about closing down on frameworks and models.

    I was lucky to hear Nobel Peace Prizewinner, Marti Ahtisaari, speak at DLD on the subject of conflict resolution. And he said that there were no models that could be applied to conflict resolution. Every situation was different. There were patterns you could draw on but little else.

    My own experience is that the frameworks are helpful--to the extent that you pay them five minutes notice, process them and then just get on with it. The problem with being 'taught' (in a six week or ten week module) entrepreneurship, is that it's a bit like learning to read a map. When you actually get on the terrain it looks and feels very much more different. There is so much more noise and so many inadequate simplifications on the map. (Not least of which is the fact that the terrain may harbour threats or opportunities not captured by the cartographer).

    What I am certain is that entrepreneurship can be analysed. And data can be produced. And it can be used to drive web traffic on blogs.

    I look at my experience over the past decade. I am doing a very much better job today (at 37) than I was at 27 (when you were running BuildOnline -- whose offices were across the hall from our annex in 42 Brook St). It isn't the availability of frameworks, although I do occasionally use them, it is.
    I have far better pattern matching. To the 10,000 hours of Gladwell -- I have an extra c. 25000 hours of waking, business experience -- to bring to bear, to spot patterns, to make quick judgements.
    I have much more experience. I have spent the equivalent of 3 yrs in technology sales, 3 years in tech marketing; 3 yrs in tech direction/architecture, years in people management, on top of what I had in 1999. It doesn't make me a black belt or a guru in these areas by any means, but it allows me to go very deep in my discussions with any of the teams.
    This isn't about nurture--this is about nature.

    But where nurture --and certainly early childhood development--has made a difference is in fostering that belief that you can pursue an opportunity. That what you have around you (in terms of resources and talent) isn't the only thing you can rely on. That if you want to make it happen, you can.

    What I've seen in many people who want to be entrepreneurs, but after beautiful powerpoint slides can't get started, is this hang-up of our modernist thinking which may begin with Saint-Simon and progresses through our scientism, and perhaps culminating logical positivism. The same 'fact-based' 'model-the-world' thinking that came out of Newton and reached warp speed in the 19th century and the Royal Insitution, that persuaded political economists to be physicists and build models of the world, seems to cast a dark shadow of our ability to dream the impossible--and get on with it.

    Thanks for putting in so much effort on your blog. It is a fantastic read.
    a
  • Thanks, Azeem. I love the quote, 'Entrepreneurship is "the pursuit of opportunity without regard to resources currently controlled" '.

    Also, I remember those 42 Brook Street days very well. Fun. And crazy.

    Thanks for your input.
  • It strikes me that one of the quintessential elements of entrepreneurship is risk. Leaving a great job to start something new is risky. While a person risk tolerance in no way suggests how successful they'll be as an entrepreneur it can definitely keep smart people from becoming entrepreneurs, learning to become more risk tolerant would be a challenge if not unhealthy. For this very reason I agree with you Mark that entrepreneurs are born and not made... I tend to go further and describe a person as an entrepreneur or not, but that isn't to say people that fall into the 'not' category aren't entrepreneurial or won't ever start a company they just aren't compelled to do so.
  • Peter C.
    Very interesting point. But the huge assumption here (that you and Suster seem to take for granted) is that the aptitude to take risk is an innate feature and not one that one that's learned.

    I will agree with you that this factor does keep many book smart people from becoming entrepreneurs. But I'm left wondering if there's some causality in being book smart to becoming risk averse. After all being book smart can often be come from following rules, not thinking outside the box, keeping strict schedules, taking written text as fact, coloring within the lines, etc. With this attitude, it would be no wonder that the "smart" conclusion is to not be an entrepreneur since most of them fail.

    I think risk if the first and biggest hurdle to becoming AN entrepreneur but, after that, the characteristics of a successful one go much beyond risk.
  • Totally agree. It's why I wrote this: http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/2010/01/05/w...
  • Are we talking about all entrepreneurs, VC-backed entrepreneurs, or founders of billion-dollar companies? It makes a big difference. If it's just the latter, case closed - you need both nature and nurture. It's like talking about NBA players and asking "nature or nurture?" They could never be that good without both. Part of the disagreement is based on confusion over what population we're talking about. Most "regular" entrepreneurs work in their fields for a while before starting companies, which it seems would be a negative indication for many VCs.

    Also, what do we even mean by someone being an entrepreneur by nature? Does it mean they had to have the proverbial lemonade stand, or does it just mean they're highly capable - smart, confident, persistent, comfortable with chaos, etc.? Google's founders are certainly exceptional people, but I don't get the impression that they had signs of entrepreneurship beaming from them. Getting a PhD in CS (which is what they were doing before Google) doesn't exactly define you as an entrepreneur, although it certainly provides you with useful skills for it. I bring this up because Vivek seems to be talking mostly about interest in entrepreneurship, and you're talking about both that and ability.

    I liked Vivek's article because I don't see entrepreneurs as some elect class, which is how some of the other posts have come off. But my big problem with it is that it's really talking about nurture vs. nurture. He's contrasting family background and upbringing with later education and work experience. There's no good way to isolate nature at all.

    But come on. How can you talk about selection bias with a straight face when VC's by definition are only working with the 1% or less sample of entrepreneurs they actually back? The plural of anecdote is not data. VC's have to be highly risk averse in some ways. Even with their best efforts, large portions of their portfolios fail. So they have to pay attention to every signal, even if it's a very weak signal. I don't think we'll ever be able to decide this argument with data, but I think the "lemonade stand" signal is a weak one for whether an entrepreneur will be successful. Then again, I'm biased too, since I didn't have one.
  • Greg. All good comments. First, let me address the VC selective bias - you are right. There is a selective bias. End of story. I agree with that. Second, you're right to try and define the playing field of entrepreneurs and your NBA example is perfect - both nature and nurture. My subjective view is that the NBA players with talent are more highly correlated with nature than nurture (read: 10,000 hours like Outliers) but you do need both.

    I have no issue with somebody thinking nurture is the stronger argument. I just take issue with somebody presenting data as "fact" to prove it. That is the thrust of my argument. Thanks for commenting.
  • Yeah, I was mostly nitpicking. Good points overall.
  • My vote is nature.

    Take my background - grew up in the UK and learned to fly at an early age. Obtained an Airline license and then moved the States, converted everything and flew for American. I never forget one day heading for Puducah Ky... I knew every radio frequency, how to fly the plane, everything - I was so incredibly bored that I simply could not imagine doing this for the rest of my life - even though by now I would have been a 777 captain or something like that.

    So I quit and started down a path doing what I had always wanted to do - build a business with nothing and deliver a solution to a customer that solved their problem. I started out trying to solve a problem that had stumped Einstein - put investors together and my partner and I embarked on the mission. Unfortunately he died - I taught myself to code and reverse engineered everything he'd done. I could not solve the problem - but along the way I stumbled on another programmer who I've been with for 14 years.

    He couldn't solve the problem either. So we sat around for a few days and talked about what to do next. We ended up focusing on a simple yet complex problem that effects all who touch the Internet - how do we make it (the content) get their faster so people get a better experience. It took 3 1/2 years - and we solved it. We released it, mod_gzip into the public domain (another long story as to why) and this year will be a decade since it's been out there without a single bug report. There is barely and IT shop that isn't using it around the globe.

    Now we're focusing on a new problem - in the future the Internet that we know will be the Internet that knows us. It's taken 3 1/2 years (always the same amount of time) to solve the problem. We took our domain experience and extended the HTTP protocol in a simple yet elegant way that allows users on Mobile devices to remain in control of their privacy yet share enough real time data (without having to type anything in) with any web server in the world. And we did all of this without having to change a single piece of infrastructure

    Nurture doesn't get you this far (20 years) - nature does. I always knew what I wanted to do, but along the way I had to take a different journey (airline pilot) to get there. My journey from airline captain to serial software entrepreneur has been a somewhat interesting ride. I've only failed once with technology - the Einstein problem, but boy did I learn some amazing stuff. Since then I've got technology right and had to learn about management and business. Nurture can only get you so far - the path of an entrepreneur is littered with dead ends, constant no's and a repeated questioning of one's belief. Along the way, family and friends suffer with "it's just around the corner" and "if only that VC would fund me"... there's very little nurture there to keep you going. You have to have an unshakable belief in not only yourself - but also the ability to validate that belief in the real world... or as I like to say it, confront reality as it is and not as you want it to be.

    Nature is your soul - could I get a job. Sure, I can fly planes, I can be a high tech CTO - but that is not ultimately who I am. I'm an entrepreneur who if asked to sum himself up in two words - would respond "I believe".

    Only nature will give you that.

    Regards,


    Peter
  • First, it's very cool to see two guys I read religiously and admire enormously enter into a discussion like this. Vivek, you must have all Google Alerts to your name hooked up to a squawk box in your apartment- nice job being the first comment on this post!
    Second- I'll just say that it seems from his post that Mark didn't realize at the time that Vivek is a seasoned entrepreneur turning his attentions for the time-being to academia and research. So it's important to point out publicly that Vivek is no ivory-tower, pipe-smoking cliche of an academician with no real-world experience. It's quite the opposite actually.
    But the major point I want to make is that when I read Vivek's article, I had a visceral reaction of skepticism as well. His "data" railed against everything I have seen in my career as entrepreneur, investor, mentor to dozens and dozens of young entrepreneurs. I was going to post about this, but Mark beat me to the punch and thank goodness he did, because he did a much better job than I would have done.
    So when Vivek asks, "where are your facts", I think this is a bit unfair. Mark is not doing scholarship now- he is investing in companies full time. He, like many others in the early-stage space are entitled to form their own subjective experience based on their voluminous life-experience, pattern recognition, gladwellian-"blink", or whatever you want to call it. This sort of life-experience is massively significant. So when someone else claims that "up is down" or that "2+2 actually equals 5" it's really not the responsibility of the reader to conduct his own survey and analysis. The onus is really on the researcher who is now in academia to frame the right questions and make the right assumptions in his surveys and analyses. Mark's bulleted critique of the four "faulty"assumptions in Vivek's piece are very compelling indeed. It would be great to see Vivek address each of them and counter with his rationale.
  • David, thank you for these comments.

    I did know Vivek's background and I've read many of his articles. I'm not questioning his subjective point of view, for which I happen in this case to disagree. I question his use of data to "prove" his points in the TechCrunch article to readers who may be less trained than you are to read data with skepticism. I read the actual paper - it is much more balanced and honest.
  • Laurent Boncenne
    Personally, I'd say we all have the entrepreneur DNA within us. Some will naturally move towards it and others won't and will need to be thaught either by force (failures of running a business) or by attending a program like Viveks.

    But to those who expect to see any facts, you won't. Studying the cases that created entrepreneurs are and will always be biased.
    If I were to take any conclusion of the study, I'd say I'm fucked big time.
    Both my parents started companies, both failed btw...
    and If I look at my closest family, then yeah about 10 of them started one (out of 30 people). I won't even look at the relatives.
    (I won't consider the fact that I stupidly started selling a newspaper I created at the age of 9 as being my first entrepreneurial experience)

    I believe the key here, is that entrepreneurs make themselves by themselves and no other way.
    It might be by going to an ivy league school or following an entrepreneur program or even (thanks to today) following blogs of people who discuss about it.
    But I won't quit just because everything in my life tends to say i'm not going to start a company someday. I'm not going to see my failure to graduate as a reason to not start one, but i'm sure going to look at those who did start a company around me and take from what they've learned. I'll do it my way.
    That, no one can teach it to you.
  • Laurent, I love that attitude. And agree with all you say. Don't be put off by your parents lack of success as entrepreneurs (or if your parents never tried). Don't be put off if you didn't go to an Ivy League school or if you didn't even graduate (see: Steve Jobs). Have unswerving belief in yourself and your abilities. And always try to learn from others. But make sure you are realistic about your strengths & weaknesses. Try to surround yourself with people who complement your weaknesses.

    Thanks for your comments. Mark
  • mikemcgrath
    Although I tend to agree with you, your argument has no facts to back up your assertions. If you reviewed 2 identical companies on paper and one had a revenue stream and the other one had none but said we will have more because we were born to do this - who would you choose?
  • Neither. Let's imagine it's 1998 and call your company 1 Yahoo and your company 2 Google. Then how would you answer this question? You can't judge without meeting the people. Larry and Sergey didn't get money from everybody but most people who met them in the early days thought they were truly exceptional individuals. Same with Jeff Bezos. My partners at GRP met both in their early days.
  • OK, I don't know if the right answer is nature or nuture, but I will throw in my biased opinion, which happens to be the same as Mark's.

    Before I have kids, I also think that a person is more a product of environment than DNA. When I started having my own family, I naively dreamed of having children and how I would nurture them to a certain personality traits... Then I have 2 kids, who are totally different in personality, behavior and taste. Not only that, their personalities shine through strongly at such a young age, and it seem they are who they are, regardless of what my husband and I do in raising them.

    Yes, I also think environment has some influence, BUT my guess is that the environment has more an effect on the manifestation of the entrepreneurial (or other) DNA than actually creating the traits. At least that is the case for me. Yes, like I said, this is a biased opinion.

    I have not read Vivek's paper, so I won't comment about his work here.
  • Peter C.
    It's true that when children are born they have their own personalities from day one. It's tempting to conclude that, because of this, entrepreneurs are due more to nature not nurture. This is what you and Suster have said.

    But what is the question at hand? Is it: Can one see entrepreneurial traits in a child? Or is it: Can people be bred into entrepreneurs?

    I think both you and Mark draw an interesting conclusion that gives the right answer to the wrong question.

    Suster goes on to draw a relationship from a person's natural personality to those characteristics of a successful entrepreneur. So I would ask a question: Could a person who was not born with these characteristics live a life that would cause them to become tenacious, street smart, resilient, inspirational, establish a strong work ethic and so on? I would say yes. Otherwise why really bother raising children to be great?

    I would contend that a person whose life experiences challenge them and are mentored to greatness are more likely to be great leaders (and potential entrepreneurs) than a precocious child who lived an extremely normal and comfortable life without any mentorship or inspiration. Of course that's just my opinion. :)
  • I should have clarified my point about my kids example a bit better. What I was trying to say is that the two kids are growing up in an *almost* identical environment, yet showing very strong and different personalities and different affinity to entrepreneurship.

    Yes I believe in the power of nurturing and well aware of the influence of the environment. But I think the environment can bring out what a person already have, or suppress it, but not so much creating it.

    I am not going to pretend to know the answer to this, and I don't believe that we are even close to getting the right answer with any of the research done so far.

    I think in this debate we have missed an important question which is about the definition of an entrepreneur. Tenacious, street smart, resilient, good work ethic, etc. are important traits often found in a good entrepreneur, but they are not the definition of an entrepreneur. You would find similar traits in a very successful "corporate" person as well.

    So is an entrepreneur someone who is successful with his/her own company? Is a singer someone who we see as celebrity on TV? what about those that have beautiful voice but never sing in public?
  • Aviah Laor
    We need to put this debate in context. When a startup is raising money, nobody asks the founder about his DNA. At the moment he or she starts, their abilities, skills and motivation are more or less given, so it doesn't really matter where it came from.

    In context, there are two two important underlying questions:
    1. Should people learn to start and run a business, pursue their ideas, make more money, whatever? The answer in context - why not? We are not going to scrutinize DNA. It should just be in the mix of the basic curriculum from the first grades to college (like basketball or music, you can learn but it doesn't mean you are Jordan or Mozart), so people will not be afraid of it, and everybody will decide if he tries his own business, or startup, to what scale. what risk etc.
    2. Do VC have a "shtanz" for desired founders? I think the answer is yes. It's not a matter of nurture vs. nature but of stereotypes, cookie cutting is easier, and probably some historical data-points that blurs other opportunities. This is the classical statistical bias: The fact that you had success in one cluster doesn't prove that others can't do as well or better. This bias is bad. Bad for people, for economy, for growth, for opportunity. It's like the middle-ages guild tradition.

    If Vivek says: "Look, don't think about Ivy League degree, parents DNA, age, etc - if you have an idea and a strong motivation just do it" or "We should give everyone who like it some entrepreneur education" I'm with him and any sane person should agree.
    But I totally agree about the data issue. The nurture vs. nature is a huge scientific question that is very very far from being solved except from very few purely genetic issues. You can not have a finite conclusion here with data.
  • Aviah,

    You're right - VC's have statistical bias. I agree. That wasn't my argument. I like Vivek's prior posts where he encourages us to think more about funding women, for example. But that doesn't mean the opposite is true. A VC's narrow minded statistical bias does not mean that data can prove that founders can be "made." Neither case is true.

    re: having people pursue their dreams regardless, let me pose this question. Let's say you knew somebody who was tone deaf and sung horribly and didn't know it. This person was going to quit his day job that paid a good salary to be a professional singer and put his and his parents life savings into his endeavor - would you say anything if you believed he would be wasting his life's savings or ruining his career? I believe that we all have a responsibility to be realistic with the entrepreneurs. If they're great at tech they might be better off joining somebody else. And the guy who can't sing - maybe he'd be great managing a band and that is a valuable contribution to an industry he may love.

    If you're interested in a real life example please see my comments to Michael Lee above. Thanks for your input.

    Mark
  • I call that the "american idol" effect. One watches that show and cannot help but feel a little annoyed at the parents or family members or so-called friends who drive people to auditions where any reasonable person could agree that the contestant is going to humiliate themselves because they just cannot sing. Better to redirect the energies and passions in a direction to which the individual is better suited.
  • Aviah Laor
    I agree, Mark. Dreams are not enough. Any career path should consider reality, and pushing illusions will make more harm than benefit.
    But I'm pretty sure that with the right support/education, most people can safely start some form of business/startup that fits their skills, passion and successful past experience; as long as they are shooting a reasonable goal that is within their range. You nicely clarified it in the comments.
  • Mark, you raise some very interesting points, but other than your opinion that there is something in a person's DNA that makes them better entrepreneurs, where are your facts?

    This is an area which undoubtedly requires a lot more research. I have been doing all I can and I presented some of my findings. In addition to this, I have experience in mentoring about 200 entrepreneurs over the years. I also founded two software companies and the Carolinas chapter of TiE. In my life as an academic, I have watched dozens of my students learn and evolve into successful entrepreneurs. I know that you can teach most people to become entrepreneurs. (True, not everyone is cut out for entrepreneurship and they must have passion and a need to succeed.)

    My unwavering belief is that normal human beings can achieve outstanding success if they try hard enough. Yes, they may need guidance, support and encouragement, but they can do what otherwise seems impossible.

    On the issue you raise about my academic papers not saying the same things as what I wrote in TechCrunch, you have to realize that there is a difference in the two mediums. A research report has to be devoid of opinion. In a tech blog, you can express personal opinion. That is what I did.

    Regards,

    Vivek Wadhwa
    Visiting Scholar, UC-Berkeley
    Director of Research, Center for Entrepreneurship and Research Commercialization and Exec in Residence, Pratt School of Engineering, Duke University
    Senior Research Associate, Labor and Worklife Program, Harvard Law School
    Research: www.GlobalizationResearch.com, Downloads: http://ssrn.com/author=738704
  • Claudiuswaveinvite
    I would tend to agree with both Wadhwa and Suster; however, I think they are missing a crucial point. Philip Zimbardo has pointed out the concept that both men are missing - a bit abstractly though. The situation is what matters most. Before I go on here is a link to his TED talk www.ted.com/talks/philip_zimbardo_on_the_psycho...

    So many people have nurtured their attributes studying 20 hours a week to get a Harvard MBA, attend leadership programs, and are never heard from again; the same thing can be said about countless first captains (brigade commanders) at the United States Military Academy that command the respect of their peers the second they set foot on campus during Beast.

    Therefore their are potentially great and wonderful leaders everywhere. Have these individuals with this talent they were born with and nurtured thrust themselves, or at no fault of their own been thrust into a situation where history will remember them?
  • Claudiuswaveinvite
    One more thing. In order to be a great leader you must be a great follower.
  • Vivek, I still suspect, based on the language you are using in your TC posts, that above all you are trying to stir a reaction on relevant topics and get people to think and discuss. You have certainly managed to get a reaction out of me more than once, and that is better than complacency, even if I might accuse you of being a little manipulative! Or, it could just be you having fun with the freedom to editorialize :)
  • Debates about the unknown... I love them. They're at the heart of mankind's unyielding drive to innovate and unexplainable need to solve problem after problem. The fact is, though, that there is no binary answer to this complex question.

    Vivek, you ask Mark where his facts are. Well, I contend that his observations as a VC and personal experiences as an entrepreneur are as relevant facts as any you refer to in your paper on the subject. Be they quantitative or qualitative, his observations (like mine, as a matter of fact) are are relevant to and bear as much merit in this age-old debate as yours, and none are mere "opinions". They are based on real experiences.

    Don't get me wrong. I agree wholeheartedly that human beings can achieve the most amazing things given the right resources and stimuli. We keep breaking the rules and accomplishing the previously unimaginable. We're constantly innovating, setting new records, and driven to "make it". But time and time again, those steering the ship of innovation (the entrepreneurs) have similar inbred traits. In other words, why is it that when we provide the same "nurture" catalysts to different people, you get completely different results. Short answer: it's the "nature" part.

    As with any statistical study, you'll no doubt find plenty of outliers, from the lucky souls who were there at the right time and the right place, to those that got a lot of outside help or money to make it or were forced into a position entrepreneurship due to external situational issues (unemployment, life changes, etc.). However, even those edge cases will no doubt include plenty of entrepreneurs who actually had "IT" all along and just needed the right stimuli (sometimes coming in the form of hardships or life challenges) to shine and succeed.

    For reference, I had the fortune of going to Wharton, where I focused on entrepreneurship, studied from decades of cases in entrepreneurial achievements and failures and heard from dozens of accomplished entrepreneurs. I spent a number of years in VC, where I observed first hand the best and worst in new business concepts, startups and their entrepreneurs. And today, I am CFO and EVP of Business Operations at KickApps in NYC. It's my second stint in this role at a startup (we successfully sold our last company in late 2007), and I honestly can't imagine doing anything else. I'm grateful to have found my sweet spot.

    However, if I had to get down to it and list out the traits that have made me enjoy and be good at what I do, every one of those are related to my character and mentality, and each one was already there when I was a kid. Ask my parents and childhood teachers.....for better or for worse, it's who I have always been. And as much as I appreciate the guidance and exposure I got along the way, I didn't learn these traits from anyone. (My brother grew up in the same house and had exposure to the same childhood stimuli as I did, but he can't so what I do and wouldn't enjoy it...just like I couldn't do what he does.)

    You may prefer to call my personal experiences an "opinion". I'll respectfully disagree and call them facts.

    If you'd like my opinion, it would be that no one can be taught -- be it actively (ie, I want to go to school to learn how...) or passively (ie, I want to teach my kid how....) -- to become an entrepreneur. Just as David Semeria mentions, you need to have the spirit, potential or aptitude in you already! All teaching and other environment/external factors can do is act as stimuli or catalysts in bringing those abilities to the surface and helping the individual hone and control them to reach his/her full potential.

    There we have it. Just another point of observation and human experience in a debate that is far from completed.
  • Knowing David well I can tell you that for him it is all nature. I've seen the videos of him as a kid to prove it! Thanks for the input, David.
  • Vivek,

    Thank you for your comments. First, I don't have "facts" - I stated that clearly. I have beliefs that have been formed by observational data. I have published my set of beliefs in 12 articles, which are here -> http://www.bothsidesofthetable.com/entrepreneur...

    I stated clearly that my views are subjective. They are my opinions and not facts.

    Also, I read your paper. I thought it was comprehensive, interesting and well thought through. I also stated that in my blog piece.

    My issue is not your argument, which I believe is a valid point of view (which I happen to not believe). My issue is that you've made it sound like your data is conclusive - it is not. I know the difference between your media (research paper and blog). I believe you still have a responsibility in either to make it clear that the data is not conclusive. People look to you for answers and not everybody has an MBA or economics degree. If they did they would have had statistics classes where they were taught to be careful about interpreting data.

    Finally, Vivek, I have read many of your previous TechCrunch articles. I appreciate your writing and your points of view. I like that you have spoken out in favor of women entrepreneurs, for example, and immigration. Both of these are important topics to me. I will continue to be an enthusiastic reader - you have many. Please use all of your media responsibly - you have many fans.

    Hope we get the chance to meet in person some day and bury the hatchet ;-)

    Mark
  • A most interesting topic with good points from both sides. On page 11 of the academic paper by Mr Wadhwa is the following statistic: Entrepreneurship didn't always run in the family. More than half (51.9%) of respondents were the first in the family to launch a business. (Father: 38.8%, Siblings: 15.2%, Mother: 6.9%). I wonder what the statistic would be like if it factored in the grandparents and also business environment of the different generations. For example, starting a business now might be easier or trendier than it was one or two generations ago.

    Nevertheless, I personally do believe nurture is very significant. Coming from the East, as I assume Mr Wadhwa is also, education has traditionally being considered a key to escaping penury. Also, in some Eastern traditions, education or nurture can be far more than intensive than what might ordinarily be known in the West. Vivek Wadhwa's message is one of hope, that through one's effort and diligence, one could make a difference.
  • The problem I have as a classically trained Physicist with a minor in philosophy is that I find it hard to draw anything statistically significant from a result that's effectively a coin-flip.

    Plus there's the fact that entrepreneurs don't necessarily mate with other entrepreneurs so who knows which genes are passed on, what combination produce entrepreneurs etc.

    I think that's the wrong area to look for evidence in the nature/nurture debate, and trying to draw anything meaningful from a 50-50 result in this sort of context strikes me as invalid. (With the caveat of not studying the underlying data myself)
  • Thank you, Michael. I believe in nurture. And I certainly want people to have hope. I believe you can make yourself better. But I believe that nature plays a stronger role than nurture in determining "outliers." It's OK to want to be a better singer. But only a handful of people in life will ever be Pavarotti.

    I think it's important for aspiring entrepreneurs to be self aware. It is their careers and other people's money that they're playing with. Example: a talented tech entrepreneur had come in to see me three times. I spent a lot of time with him because I really liked him as a person. I concluded (subjectively) that he wouldn't make a great startup CEO. He had taken money from friends and family. I coached him to try and attract a team who could plug his skills. I believe that he could improve but never be great as a startup CEO. If he wanted to pursue his dreams AND make money for himself and the people who entrusted him with money I had a responsibility to tell him what I believed to be the truth.

    He's done just that. He hired a business person to run things. He was selected for the TechCrunch50 and was in the top 5 selected. He has attracted more capital and media attention. I believe the truth can set you free.
  • Peter C.
    Great debate by two very smart and knowledgeable gentleman on the topic.

    I wonder, though, if this is just a simple case of bias. Based on their backgrounds it seems that Wadhwa spends his days working with students and teaching them how to be entrepreneurs in an academic setting. Suster seems like he spends most of his days (as a venture capitalist) evaluating people on whether people/companies are worth being invested in... the long arm of mentorship likely is spent with people he's already determined have the right stuff.

    The aforementioned example is a great illustration of this. Suster meets a guy he likes and works with him (3 times.. which is certainly not enough time for mentorship but a big investment for a busy VC). Suster concludes this guy doesn't have the right "DNA" and tells him to get a business guy. He does that and goes on to be successful.

    But what conclusion can be drawn from this? That Suster is right? How does he know his friend wouldn't have been just as successful (or even more so) without the business guy? This sort of experience can only affirm to a VC that entrepreneurs are born not bred.

    In the big picture, I think it's actually more effective for a VC to think this way. Working with people who don't have the right stuff from day one will take a lot of time investment. Time/money is the one thing that people don't have when starting a company.

    But, in the context of this debate, I'm inclined to side with Wadhwa that there's more of a nurture vs nature not just to entrepreneurship but also to leadership, life and success. There is great evidence of this looking beyond entrepreneurs but to highly successful leaders in other areas such as politics. Most great presidents come from humble and modest background but had formative experiences that seeded a personality of greatness.
  • I respect that point of view. I don't want to belabor this, but my biggest beef isn't with the nature vs. nurture debate - it's with saying "I have conclusive data that proves my point is correct." That is what I believe Mr. Wadhwa did.
  • Entrepreneurship is like art - you might indeed be able to teach it, but there must first be an underlying aptitude combined with an almost spiritual attraction to the cause.

    The fact that your parents didn't run their own business is about as relevant to an entrepreneur as the fact that they didn't win an Oscar is to a film director.
  • Aviah Laor
    Hmmm, a metaphor from Italy, isn't it?
    David, we should be cautious in over- glorification of entrepreneurship. I encourage you to read "almost perfect" (it's available free online), how a Utah based professor, a musician turned programmer, a drapery store owner and a shrewed salesman built Word Perfect, a billion dollar business (crashed by MSFT, but this is not unique). You can never tell. The trick is to find the right fit of business to character, skills etc. And yes, aptitude included, but it's much more common than true art talent.
  • Well, the metaphor is Italian to the extent that I was sitting at my desk in Italy when I wrote it!

    Here's an appropriate (old English) aphorism: you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear
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