The @TWTFelipe Story – A Tale of US Visa Policy Gone Awry (#startupvisa)

by Mark Suster on April 4, 2010

American Visa (XL)

“Staple green cards to the diplomas of foreign students who graduate from any U.S. university in math or science” (Thomas Friedman)

I’ve been meaning to write this post since September of last year when Brad Feld first wrote about the The Founders Visa Movement.  I commented briefly on his blog and made a mental note to write a blog post.  I was prompted again by Friedman’s Op Ed this weekend on immigration & jobs, which was covered by Fred Wilson (more succinctly than I am capable of).

Two weeks after Brad’s post I was at the 140 Conference in LA and I held open office hours for any entrepreneur who wanted to spend 15 minutes talking with a VC about their business.  I filled up with 20 people pretty quickly and realized this schedule was masochistic. But it turns out I met a bunch of really interesting entrepreneurs.

The one that stuck with me the longest was my chat with TWTFelipe (Felipe Coimbria).   TWTFelipe is the founder of TWTApps, who had developed some really cool add-on applications for Twitter to extend its functionality.  TWTFelipe and I ended up speaking for nearly 30 minutes and we talked mostly about why his company was based in Canada and not the US.  At the time he granted me permission to write about his story.  I hope that didn’t have a stature of limitation! ;-)

Felipe grew up in Brazil.  He came to the United States in 2001 to study Software Engineering at Auburn University.  In 2005 he was graduated and took a job in South Carolina working for technology company while he started his own web design company on the side.  He made some mistakes on his immigration paperwork so he was forced to leave the country for 8 months.  He spent a bunch of this time in Canada. By 2006 he had received proper authorization to move back to the US to join a company in the town I grew up in: Sacramento, California.

But TWTFelipe is an entrepreneur.  He started another company on the side while he was working during the day at a technology company.  His new company was called YowTrip and he wanted to work on it full time.  But in the US your immigration is tied to your employment with another company so if you want to create a new company (read: create jobs) you cannot easily do so.  So he decided to start his company in Canada.  He applied for the necessary immigration papers to run his company in Canada.

While he was waiting for the paperwork to be reviewed he moved to Boulder, Colorado and took a job with a local tech company there.  He told me that at the time he still held out hopes of being able to start a company in the US.  As a technologist he felt the US was “ground zero” for technology innovation.  But it wasn’t meant to be.  TWTFelipe moved to Montreal, Canada.  Naturally he is happy there and probably has few regrets.  But I have some.  TWTFelipe and everybody like him who want to start high-tech, green tech or other scientific companies in the US should be encouraged to do so.

That is the reason I am so supportive of the Startup Visa movement that has been so successfully championed by Brad Feld, Dave McClure, Eric Ries, Shervin Pishevar and many others.

I know all of this from first hand experience.  At my first company, BuildOnline, we were based in the UK and decided to open US offices (read: create US jobs) but as the CEO I couldn’t leave our HQ.  So I asked our COO, Stuart Lander (a Brit) to set up operations for us.  Eventually he got paperwork to do so, but it was ridiculously long and riddled with red tape.  We then moved our CFO, David Lapter, to the US.  Again, much red tape even though David grew up in the US (he had since moved to Europe and married a wonderful woman from Romania).  We then moved our Chief Software Architect over.  He’s South African.  More red tape.

I felt frustrated because I saw economic possibilities in our US expansion but it was riddled with all sorts of difficulties and complexities.  By 2005 I had moved back to the US and we started hiring US employees (The first two employees we hired had both grown up in India!  Irony, hey?).  In 2006 we sold the company to a French services company.  I wanted several of the software engineers to join me at our next startup but their employment was tied to BuildOnline.  We had the consent of the acquiring company to take them yet US regulation prohibited it.  So BuildOnline kept the employees on their books and they did subcontracting work for our company, Koral.  Hrrmph.

In 2007 Salesforce.com wanted to buy Koral.  You can imagine the complexities.  They wanted to employ our entire team post acquisition.  But two of our employees were tied to BuildOnline’s visa and four of our employees were in the UK.  I won’t bore you with the details but the deal almost didn’t go through as a result of immigration hassles and it took a full 2 years for all of the employees to become proper employees of Salesforce.com in the US.

So immigration policy has always been top of mind for me.  Not least of which because my father immigrated to the US in the 1960′s for his residency program of medical school.  When he had finished the program the US wanted more doctors due to the Vietnam War.  My Dad was drafted into the Air Force and was given accelerated citizenship.  While many doctors went to Vietnam my father was a pediatrician and they needed those in the US.  He was fortunate.  It seemed that back then the US government recognized the importance of attracting the best and brightest from around the world.  My dad’s father fled Jewish oppression in Eastern Europe as a teenager and ended up in South America.  Immigration and multiculturalism were always top of mind in my household.

So I was intrigued when I read Thomas Friedmans’s Op Ed in December 2008 about the need to Reboot America.  The world had just gone into crisis and I was in a period of reflection reminiscent of September 2001.  Friedman said,

[we have] “immigration policies that have our colleges educating the world’s best scientists and engineers and then, when these foreigners graduate, instead of stapling green cards to their diplomas, we order them to go home and start companies to compete against ours.”

January 2009 where he said in a column on Tax Cuts for Teachers:

“One of the smartest stimulus moves we could make would be to eliminate federal income taxes on all public schoolteachers so more talented people would choose these careers. I’d also double the salaries of all highly qualified math and science teachers, staple green cards to the diplomas of foreign students who graduate from any U.S. university in math or science — instead of subsidizing their educations and then sending them home”

Crazy, huh?  Subsidize their education and then send them home.  He covered the topic again in June 2009 titled Invent, Invent, Invent.  He stated:

“China is also courting trouble. Recently — in the name of censoring pornography — China blocked access to Google and demanded that computers sold in China come supplied with an Internet nanny filter called Green Dam Youth Escort, starting July 1. Green Dam can also be used to block politics, not just Playboy. Once you start censoring the Web, you restrict the ability to imagine and innovate. You are telling young Chinese that if they really want to explore, they need to go abroad.

We should be taking advantage. Now is when we should be stapling a green card to the diploma of any foreign student who earns an advanced degree at any U.S. university, and we should be ending all H-1B visa restrictions on knowledge workers who want to come here. They would invent many more jobs than they would supplant. The world’s best brains are on sale. Let’s buy more!”

Friedman again in this weekend’s (Apr 3, 2010) NYTimes:

“Between 1980 and 2005, virtually all net new jobs created in the U.S. were created by firms that were 5 years old or less,” said Litan. “That is about 40 million jobs. That means the established firms created no new net jobs during that period. … Good-paying jobs don’t come from bailouts. They come from start-ups. And where do start-ups come from? They come from smart, creative, inspired risk-takers. How do we get more of those? There are only two ways: grow more by improving our schools or import more by recruiting talented immigrants. Surely, we need to do both, and we need to start by breaking the deadlock in Congress over immigration, so we can develop a much more strategic approach to attracting more of the world’s creative risk-takers. “Roughly 25 percent of successful high-tech start-ups over the last decade were founded or co-founded by immigrants,” said Litan. Think Sergey Brin, the Russian-born co-founder of Google, or Vinod Khosla, the India-born co-founder of Sun Microsystems.

I was fortunate enough to spend 2 hours with Thomas Friedman in a group of about 15 people at UCSB last year discussing green tech, clean tech and immigration.  I guess you could tell by my quotes that I’m a big fan (by the way, if you never read From Beirut to Jerusalem and want a better understanding of Middle East politics you should absolutely read this book).  What I love about Friedman is that he’s neither “left” or “right” on issues.  OK, he’s usually RIGHT, but not “right.”  He didn’t mince words in our discussion.  He stated clearly that the US is F’d up on immigration and both parties are fighting it.

Contrast that with my very disappointing meeting with Barbara Boxer last year.  It was also in a group of about 15 people in law offices in Los Angeles.  I asked her about how we could streamline the H1-B visa process for the best foreign entrepreneurs to start companies in California (this was before Brad ignited the whole Startup Visa movement).  Her response?

“Well, I’d be for anything that helps but doesn’t weaken the positions of our existing citizens in California who are looking for work.”

Such bullshit.  Uh, Ms. Boxer, go read Friedman. “Good-paying jobs don’t come from bailouts. They come from start-ups …25 percent of successful high-tech start-ups over the last decade were founded or co-founded by immigrants.”

I won’t be voting for Boxer or any other candidate that hedges this issue in an attempt to “not alienating their base.”  I’m tired of politicians at the edges talking to the fringe voters to win primary elections.  We need to create jobs in this country.  We need to be positioned long-term in the US against countries that are hungry to compete with us on creating the next generation of startup technology companies.  I certainly don’t want the next generation of iPad-like innovation to come “with an Internet nanny filter called Green Dam Youth Escort.”  Do you?

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  • http://www.kidmercuryblog.com kidmercury

    just a few points:

    1. any time government gets involved there is going to be money spent. probably inefficiently and with great biases, if a few thousand years of history are to be observed. i never hear any VC give a concrete analysis of what this means for US taxpayers. what type of governemnt resources will be used towards this, how much, and what are the opportunity costs? all i hear are sob stories about felipe and such. i'm sure felipe is a nice guy, and i wish him the best of luck and hope he has the chance to pursue his dreams, as i wish all life forms have that chance. not sure i want to pay for it though. and i definitely don't want to pay for it if no one is going to tell me how much it costs. i find it quite disappointing that professional investors do not apply the rigorous cost analysis methods they apply to their portfolio when it comes time to ask for government help.

    2. is part of the argument here about creating jobs? not buying it. there are better ways to create jobs. they don't involve stimulus packages of any kind. they involve downsizing government. they involve fixing fiscal and moentary policy so that america, a nation with a negative savings rate, can start to save. savings, not debt, are the foundation for investments and prosperity. the fact that america has gone from a one income household with a positive savings rate to a two income household with a negative savings rate in under 50 years is the trend that needs to be reversed for those concerned about america's future.

    3. I certainly don’t want the next generation of iPad-like innovation to come “with an Internet nanny filter called Green Dam Youth Escort.” Do you? lol, why is it that we are so quick to blame china while remaining so tolerant of things like the patriot act and att's open partnership with the NSA, already proven to be in violation of the constitution? google has already been caught censoring 9/11 truth. the internet nanny filter is here and it came from american corporations.

    4. i also don't view other nations as “competing with us”. if “us” means america and the american government, lol, no thanks, i definitely ain't trying to be associated with the world's biggest bully. and in the age of multinational corporations, where goldman sachs and nike are more influential than many nations and their voters, “america” becomes a much more nebulous concept. i prefer to focus on individualism.

  • http://www.vidafine.com ben

    hah. love the topics in your blog.

    America's ability to retain talent is being challanged by countries that are undergoing rapid development, such as China and India. while America still has some of the best universities, we should see much that talent moving to opportunities elsewhere. a lot of them are actually international students who can now find great jobs/opportunities in their origin country.

    the public education in the States isn't the best either. have been having similar discussions regarding public education. my girlfriend just left corporate to pursue teaching, what she really wanted to do. it's not easy: the pay cut, and that career path is generally not viewed as prestigious either. it does discourage many passionate teachers from the profession.

    so if you guys want to have a constant supply of talent and innovation, gotta treat your teachers better (not only in terms of $ and tax benefits, but value GOOD teachers, merit-based) and cut down that 'red tape' to foreign investments.

    Mark, sorry to hear all the trouble you went through, glad it all worked out =)

  • http://startupcfo.ca startupcfo

    One person's loss is another person's gain. I sympathize with the issues you raise and Felipe is a great example. But as a long time member of Montreal's startup community I am pleased that Felipe is a part of it. He has had a big impact in his short time here. And given that he's survived a few winters, I hope he's here to stay.

    More seriously though, we often talk here in Canada of “brain drain” – people leaving Canada most often for the US. This is not particular to tech obviously, but our proximity to the US market, the need to go south for funding after series A and given the likelihood of an acquirer being in the U.S., our tech industry is particularly vulnerable to brain drain.

    So, while we certainly don't want to gain at the US' loss, I am happy to hear of great folks like Felipe joining us up here.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    I don't sob for Felipe. It's America's loss when we turn talented immigrants away. Anyone who has studied economics will tell you, “there are two ways to grow an economy: 1) get more people working and 2) get them working more productively.” In a competitive world, intelligent and targeted immigration solves both problems. And if you think there isn't a geographic war for talent your kidding yourself. It's true the corporations are more powerful than they used to be, but where companies are based has a huge impact on local economies. Spend any time in Mountain View and you'll see the Google Effect.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Dude, I'm totally with you on education reform. But if you thought it was hard to fix something “easy” like visa reform imagine how difficult it will be to reform our educational system. I'm all for higher pay and merit-based rewards for teachers.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    I understand that. Each country needs to use its resources to compete to get the best talent to move and live in their countries. I'm not arguing that the whole of the world's talents need to be based in the US, just that the US needs to recognize it's in a long-term, global war for talent in which job creation is the result. Our policies need to be aligned with this reality.

  • http://www.kidmercuryblog.com kidmercury

    i agree there is a geographic “war,” though my contention is that
    economic hubs (like silicon valley) are more relevant than
    nation-state classifications (like america as a whole). richard
    florida has a good book on this, i forget the name of it. anyway, as i
    noted, the situation is more nuanced than a simple “nation or no
    nation” situation. by making this an “america” issue, you are
    disregarding the nuances. to elaborate, the startup visa is going to
    generate jobs tech jobs in major economic hubs (silicon valley, new
    york city, boulder, colorado, i guess, etc). it is not going to do
    much for billy bob in alabama. so why should billy bob pay for it? why
    shouldn't google pay for it? of course, the issue is more complex
    because it is an immigration issue, which involves national law. hence
    the problem with the nation-state as a model of governance in our
    current world, but that is a larger story altogether.

    also, you are disregarding the fact that competing for entrepreneurs
    deprives the other nation/economy you are taking them from. whether or
    not this is simply a function of free market activity is another issue
    – i don't think it is, as i don't think the free market really exists
    anywhere, as no nation has a sound currency and fairly managed money
    supply, which is a prerequisite to a free market. if we accept that no
    one would want to come to the US were not it for the US dollar and the
    american finance industry it allows to be created, and that the
    dollar's value is enforced/protected by the US empire, than it becomes
    more apparent how i view the whole startup visa issue as more akin to
    stealing. again, i realize the situation is a lot more nuanced than
    what this short comment allows for, but the fact that these points are
    never raised at all, does not leave me sympathetic to venture
    capitalists who want to use felipe's sob story to suit their agenda
    (felipe if you're reading this no offense….lol sorry next time i
    will use someone else's name….hope you are succeeding! and you can
    probably do it in your home country/economy). or, if it is not
    felipe's sob story as you suggest, it is not my sob story either –
    because i won't benefit from it (silicon valley will). in fact myself
    and other folks like billy bob in alabama may get hurt by this,
    because our tax dollars will go towards financing the costs of this
    (still waiting to hear back on what it costs) while we don't get the
    benefits.

  • http://www.socialannex.com/ Al

    This is a great post and I'm glad there's such a push for it now.

    One piece that you haven't really covered is for entrepreneurs that are able to get through the immigration loop but lose years of time before they can actually start a company. This is true in my case. I had to personally wait years till the immigration process ended with the company that sponsored me to now be able to start my own. I in fact tried several ways to get started, but of of them were prohibitive and would have been illegal if I had pursued them. I strongly considered moving to Canada at the time like Filepe as well. Luckily I was working for a venture funded startup which had it's highs and deep lows and given that I was one of the early employees, really got a chance to go beyond my role – which really kept me staying in the US.

    So I cannot emphasize this enough. It's not just for people that can't stay here. It's also for people that have managed to, but lose years of golden time in the process.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    Hey Mark, it was nice meeting you in LA last year and thanks for mentioning my story on your post.

    Yes, immigration is a huge problem in the US and everyone I know has run into issues one way or another. It's very discouraging and more and more good people will choose to go somewhere else. The #startupvisa is a step in the right direction, however that wouldn't have helped me either.

    When I was there, all I wanted was to NOT have a job, but I had to keep a full-time job in order to maintain my immigration status. So, my only option was to keep working (and do what I wanted to do part-time) and wait for 3-5 years for the permanent residency paperwork.

    When I visited Montreal during the period that I had visa issues, I fell in love with this city. So, that plus the fact that it took me less than 1 year to become a permanent resident was a double win for me.

    Here, I found a active and welcoming community and I was able to work on a few projects over the past year. You should come check it out at some point. Maybe for Startup Camp next month (May 6)? Dave McClure will be here too.

  • jason

    In general, I agree strongly with the premise that the U.S. should change immigration policies in order to encourage more U.S.-educated students to stay here to innovate and create jobs. I also realize it's not a simple as “stapling a green card to their diploma,” but I strongly support the concept behind that. Beware the unintended consequence, however. Such a policy would likely create substantial demand for U.S. degrees by foreign citizens who want a U.S. visa for a broad range of reasons — and only some of those would relate to innovation and job creation. But that flood of applicants would crowd an already overtaxed and underfunded higher education system in the U.S. which is already effectively making itself increasingly inaccessible to millions of U.S. college applicants and students.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    Thanks Mark. Glad to be here in Montreal too. Yep, I not only survived, but I actually like the Winters here :)

  • http://www.kidmercuryblog.com kidmercury

    just a few points:

    1. any time government gets involved there is going to be money spent. probably inefficiently and with great biases, if a few thousand years of history are to be observed. i never hear any VC give a concrete analysis of what this means for US taxpayers. what type of governemnt resources will be used towards this, how much, and what are the opportunity costs? all i hear are sob stories about felipe and such. i'm sure felipe is a nice guy, and i wish him the best of luck and hope he has the chance to pursue his dreams, as i wish all life forms have that chance. not sure i want to pay for it though. and i definitely don't want to pay for it if no one is going to tell me how much it costs. i find it quite disappointing that professional investors do not apply the rigorous cost analysis methods they apply to their portfolio when it comes time to ask for government help.

    2. is part of the argument here about creating jobs? not buying it. there are better ways to create jobs. they don't involve stimulus packages of any kind. they involve downsizing government. they involve fixing fiscal and moentary policy so that america, a nation with a negative savings rate, can start to save. savings, not debt, are the foundation for investments and prosperity. the fact that america has gone from a one income household with a positive savings rate to a two income household with a negative savings rate in under 50 years is the trend that needs to be reversed for those concerned about america's future.

    3. I certainly don’t want the next generation of iPad-like innovation to come “with an Internet nanny filter called Green Dam Youth Escort.” Do you? lol, why is it that we are so quick to blame china while remaining so tolerant of things like the patriot act and att's open partnership with the NSA, already proven to be in violation of the constitution? google has already been caught censoring 9/11 truth. the internet nanny filter is here and it came from american corporations.

    4. i also don't view other nations as “competing with us”. if “us” means america and the american government, lol, no thanks, i definitely ain't trying to be associated with the world's biggest bully. and in the age of multinational corporations, where goldman sachs and nike are more influential than many nations and their voters, “america” becomes a much more nebulous concept. i prefer to focus on individualism.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    What costs are you talking about? This is about less regulations, open the borders to immigrants with the potential to contribute to the economy as a whole… I don't think the INS will need any more tax funding. In the 90's they used to approve 200K work visas/yr, now it's limited to 65K. So there's room to grow without extra funding.

    Don't underestimate the innovation/entrepreneurship happening outside of Silicon Valley. There's a lot going on in Atlanta, Austin, Florida to name a few… So, Billy Bob in Alabama might very well get the benefits from this too.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    Exactly. That's why I left. I could either wait 3-5 years for the green card, or have the freedom to start my business in Canada in less than 1.

  • http://www.kidmercuryblog.com kidmercury

    i'd like to see a bill placed before congress related to this matter. then i'd like to see that bill thoroughly dissected. then we will know exactly what it costs, as well as what other expenses folks in congress will try to piggyback on it. the underlying issue is that the US government is fundamentally broken, especially at the national level.

  • http://twitter.com/nickgiglia Nick Giglia

    Once again, we see an issue in which sloganeering and overgeneralization have proven easier for our elected officials than tangible action to address a real problem. How sad.

    I love Friedman's take on startups, because entrepreneurs are going to drive the next generation of the U.S. economy, as well as most other economies in the world (in some form or another). It used to be that students graduating from American colleges had more opportunity in the U.S. than their native countries, so it was never a question of whether or not they would stay after college was finished. Now, things are far more competitive across the globe, and we will need to do things such as stapling green cards to their diplomas, or other interesting ideas. One idea I heard (I'm pretty sure it was over on Fred Wilson's site) suggested a temporary residency visa in which foreign entrepreneurs would be granted permanent residency if they created a certain number of American jobs or generated a certain amount of wealth. This is a situation that benefits the economy and conjures up a different image than that of the script-following support staffer “taking the job” of an American worker.

    The U.S. is still in many ways the best country in the world to start a company. Unfortunately, things like erecting barriers and putting those asinine startup provisions in the proposed Dodd “reform” bill will only achieve the opposite.

    I think Friedman went too far when he suggested billions stimulus money should be thrown at startups, since the cold hard truth is that not every startup is worthy of or requires venture funding, and it would only encourage excessive risk or contribute to a new bubble. The government should, simply, make it as easy as they can for entrepreneurs, both foreign and native, to create jobs in the United States.

  • http://www.vidafine.com ben

    hah. love the topics in your blog.

    America's ability to retain talent is being challanged by countries that are undergoing rapid development, such as China and India. while America still has some of the best universities, we should see much that talent moving to opportunities elsewhere. a lot of them are actually international students who can now find great jobs/opportunities in their origin country.

    the public education in the States isn't the best either. have been having similar discussions regarding public education. my girlfriend just left corporate to pursue teaching, what she really wanted to do. it's not easy: the pay cut, and that career path is generally not viewed as prestigious either. it does discourage many passionate teachers from the profession.

    so if you guys want to have a constant supply of talent and innovation, gotta treat your teachers better (not only in terms of $ and tax benefits, but value GOOD teachers, merit-based) and cut down that 'red tape' to foreign investments.

    Mark, sorry to hear all the trouble you went through, glad it all worked out =)

  • http://www.vidafine.com ben

    hah. love the topics in your blog.

    America's ability to retain talent is being challanged by countries that are undergoing rapid development, such as China and India. while America still has some of the best universities, we should see much that talent moving to opportunities elsewhere. a lot of them are actually international students who can now find great jobs/opportunities in their origin country.

    the public education in the States isn't the best either. have been having similar discussions regarding public education. my girlfriend just left corporate to pursue teaching, what she really wanted to do. it's not easy: the pay cut, and that career path is generally not viewed as prestigious either. it does discourage many passionate teachers from the profession.

    so if you guys want to have a constant supply of talent and innovation, gotta treat your teachers better (not only in terms of $ and tax benefits, but value GOOD teachers, merit-based) and cut down that 'red tape' to foreign investments.

    Mark, sorry to hear all the trouble you went through, glad it all worked out =)

  • http://startupcfo.ca startupcfo

    One person's loss is another person's gain. I sympathize with the issues you raise and Felipe is a great example. But as a long time member of Montreal's startup community I am pleased that Felipe is a part of it. He has had a big impact in his short time here. And given that he's survived a few winters, I hope he's here to stay.

    More seriously though, we often talk here in Canada of “brain drain” – people leaving Canada most often for the US. This is not particular to tech obviously, but given our proximity to the US market, the need to go south for funding after series A and given the likelihood of an acquirer being in the U.S., our tech industry is particularly vulnerable to brain drain.

    So, while we certainly don't want to gain at the US' loss, I am happy to hear of great folks like Felipe joining us up here.

  • http://startupcfo.ca startupcfo

    One person's loss is another person's gain. I sympathize with the issues you raise and Felipe is a great example. But as a long time member of Montreal's startup community I am pleased that Felipe is a part of it. He has had a big impact in his short time here. And given that he's survived a few winters, I hope he's here to stay.

    More seriously though, we often talk here in Canada of “brain drain” – people leaving Canada most often for the US. This is not particular to tech obviously, but given our proximity to the US market, the need to go south for funding after series A and given the likelihood of an acquirer being in the U.S., our tech industry is particularly vulnerable to brain drain.

    So, while we certainly don't want to gain at the US' loss, I am happy to hear of great folks like Felipe joining us up here.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    I don't sob for Felipe. It's America's loss when we turn talented immigrants away. Anyone who has studied economics will tell you, “there are two ways to grow an economy: 1) get more people working and 2) get them working more productively.” In a competitive world, intelligent and targeted immigration solves both problems. And if you think there isn't a geographic war for talent your kidding yourself. It's true the corporations are more powerful than they used to be, but where companies are based has a huge impact on local economies. Spend any time in Mountain View and you'll see the Google Effect.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    I don't sob for Felipe. It's America's loss when we turn talented immigrants away. Anyone who has studied economics will tell you, “there are two ways to grow an economy: 1) get more people working and 2) get them working more productively.” In a competitive world, intelligent and targeted immigration solves both problems. And if you think there isn't a geographic war for talent your kidding yourself. It's true the corporations are more powerful than they used to be, but where companies are based has a huge impact on local economies. Spend any time in Mountain View and you'll see the Google Effect.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Dude, I'm totally with you on education reform. But if you thought it was hard to fix something “easy” like visa reform imagine how difficult it will be to reform our educational system. I'm all for higher pay and merit-based rewards for teachers.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Dude, I'm totally with you on education reform. But if you thought it was hard to fix something “easy” like visa reform imagine how difficult it will be to reform our educational system. I'm all for higher pay and merit-based rewards for teachers.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    I understand that. Each country needs to use its resources to compete to get the best talent to move and live in their countries. I'm not arguing that the whole of the world's talents need to be based in the US, just that the US needs to recognize it's in a long-term, global war for talent in which job creation is the result. Our policies need to be aligned with this reality.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    I understand that. Each country needs to use its resources to compete to get the best talent to move and live in their countries. I'm not arguing that the whole of the world's talents need to be based in the US, just that the US needs to recognize it's in a long-term, global war for talent in which job creation is the result. Our policies need to be aligned with this reality.

  • http://www.kidmercuryblog.com kidmercury

    i agree there is a geographic “war,” though my contention is that
    economic hubs (like silicon valley) are more relevant than
    nation-state classifications (like america as a whole). richard
    florida has a good book on this, i forget the name of it. anyway, as i
    noted, the situation is more nuanced than a simple “nation or no
    nation” situation. by making this an “america” issue, you are
    disregarding the nuances. to elaborate, the startup visa is going to
    generate jobs tech jobs in major economic hubs (silicon valley, new
    york city, boulder, colorado, i guess, etc). it is not going to do
    much for billy bob in alabama. so why should billy bob pay for it? why
    shouldn't google pay for it? of course, the issue is more complex
    because it is an immigration issue, which involves national law. hence
    the problem with the nation-state as a model of governance in our
    current world, but that is a larger story altogether.

    also, you are disregarding the fact that competing for entrepreneurs
    deprives the other nation/economy you are taking them from. whether or
    not this is simply a function of free market activity is another issue
    – i don't think it is, as i don't think the free market really exists
    anywhere, as no nation has a sound currency and fairly managed money
    supply, which is a prerequisite to a free market. if we accept that no
    one would want to come to the US were not it for the US dollar and the
    american finance industry it allows to be created, and that the
    dollar's value is enforced/protected by the US empire, than it becomes
    more apparent how i view the whole startup visa issue as more akin to
    stealing. again, i realize the situation is a lot more nuanced than
    what this short comment allows for, but the fact that these points are
    never raised at all, does not leave me sympathetic to venture
    capitalists who want to use felipe's sob story to suit their agenda
    (felipe if you're reading this no offense….lol sorry next time i
    will use someone else's name….hope you are succeeding! and you can
    probably do it in your home country/economy). or, if it is not
    felipe's sob story as you suggest, it is not my sob story either –
    because i won't benefit from it (silicon valley will). in fact myself
    and other folks like billy bob in alabama may get hurt by this,
    because our tax dollars will go towards financing the costs of this
    (still waiting to hear back on what it costs) while we don't get the
    benefits.

  • http://www.kidmercuryblog.com kidmercury

    i agree there is a geographic “war,” though my contention is that
    economic hubs (like silicon valley) are more relevant than
    nation-state classifications (like america as a whole). richard
    florida has a good book on this, i forget the name of it. anyway, as i
    noted, the situation is more nuanced than a simple “nation or no
    nation” situation. by making this an “america” issue, you are
    disregarding the nuances. to elaborate, the startup visa is going to
    generate jobs tech jobs in major economic hubs (silicon valley, new
    york city, boulder, colorado, i guess, etc). it is not going to do
    much for billy bob in alabama. so why should billy bob pay for it? why
    shouldn't google pay for it? of course, the issue is more complex
    because it is an immigration issue, which involves national law. hence
    the problem with the nation-state as a model of governance in our
    current world, but that is a larger story altogether.

    also, you are disregarding the fact that competing for entrepreneurs
    deprives the other nation/economy you are taking them from. whether or
    not this is simply a function of free market activity is another issue
    – i don't think it is, as i don't think the free market really exists
    anywhere, as no nation has a sound currency and fairly managed money
    supply, which is a prerequisite to a free market. if we accept that no
    one would want to come to the US were not it for the US dollar and the
    american finance industry it allows to be created, and that the
    dollar's value is enforced/protected by the US empire, than it becomes
    more apparent how i view the whole startup visa issue as more akin to
    stealing. again, i realize the situation is a lot more nuanced than
    what this short comment allows for, but the fact that these points are
    never raised at all, does not leave me sympathetic to venture
    capitalists who want to use felipe's sob story to suit their agenda
    (felipe if you're reading this no offense….lol sorry next time i
    will use someone else's name….hope you are succeeding! and you can
    probably do it in your home country/economy). or, if it is not
    felipe's sob story as you suggest, it is not my sob story either –
    because i won't benefit from it (silicon valley will). in fact myself
    and other folks like billy bob in alabama may get hurt by this,
    because our tax dollars will go towards financing the costs of this
    (still waiting to hear back on what it costs) while we don't get the
    benefits.

  • http://www.socialannex.com/ Al

    This is a great post and I'm glad there's such a push for it now.

    One piece that you haven't really covered is for entrepreneurs that are able to get through the immigration loop but lose years of time before they can actually start a company. This is true in my case. I had to personally wait years till the immigration process ended with the company that sponsored me to now be able to start my own. I in fact tried several ways to get started, but of of them were prohibitive and would have been illegal if I had pursued them. I strongly considered moving to Canada at the time like Filepe as well. Luckily I was working for a venture funded startup which had it's highs and deep lows and given that I was one of the early employees, really got a chance to go beyond my role – which really kept me staying in the US.

    So I cannot emphasize this enough. It's not just for people that can't stay here. It's also for people that have managed to, but lose years of golden time in the process.

  • http://www.socialannex.com/ Al

    This is a great post and I'm glad there's such a push for it now.

    One piece that you haven't really covered is for entrepreneurs that are able to get through the immigration loop but lose years of time before they can actually start a company. This is true in my case. I had to personally wait years till the immigration process ended with the company that sponsored me to now be able to start my own. I in fact tried several ways to get started, but of of them were prohibitive and would have been illegal if I had pursued them. I strongly considered moving to Canada at the time like Filepe as well. Luckily I was working for a venture funded startup which had it's highs and deep lows and given that I was one of the early employees, really got a chance to go beyond my role – which really kept me staying in the US.

    So I cannot emphasize this enough. It's not just for people that can't stay here. It's also for people that have managed to, but lose years of golden time in the process.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    Hey Mark, it was nice meeting you in LA last year and thanks for mentioning my story on your post.

    Yes, immigration is a huge problem in the US and everyone I know has run into issues one way or another. It's very discouraging and more and more good people will choose to go somewhere else. The #startupvisa is a step in the right direction, however that wouldn't have helped me either.

    When I was there, all I wanted was to NOT have a job, but I had to keep a full-time job in order to maintain my immigration status. So, my only option was to keep working (and do what I wanted to do part-time) and wait for 3-5 years for the permanent residency paperwork.

    When I visited Montreal during the period that I had visa issues, I fell in love with this city. So, that plus the fact that it took me less than 1 year to become a permanent resident was a double win for me.

    Here, I found a active and welcoming community and I was able to work on a few projects over the past year. You should come check it out at some point. Maybe for Startup Camp next month (May 6)? Dave McClure will be here too.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    Hey Mark, it was nice meeting you in LA last year and thanks for mentioning my story on your post.

    Yes, immigration is a huge problem in the US and everyone I know has run into issues one way or another. It's very discouraging and more and more good people will choose to go somewhere else. The #startupvisa is a step in the right direction, however that wouldn't have helped me either.

    When I was there, all I wanted was to NOT have a job, but I had to keep a full-time job in order to maintain my immigration status. So, my only option was to keep working (and do what I wanted to do part-time) and wait for 3-5 years for the permanent residency paperwork.

    When I visited Montreal during the period that I had visa issues, I fell in love with this city. So, that plus the fact that it took me less than 1 year to become a permanent resident was a double win for me.

    Here, I found a active and welcoming community and I was able to work on a few projects over the past year. You should come check it out at some point. Maybe for Startup Camp next month (May 6)? Dave McClure will be here too.

  • jason

    In general, I agree strongly with the premise that the U.S. should change immigration policies in order to encourage more U.S.-educated students to stay here to innovate and create jobs. I also realize it's not a simple as “stapling a green card to their diploma,” but I strongly support the concept behind that. Beware the unintended consequence, however. Such a policy would likely create substantial demand for U.S. degrees by foreign citizens who want a U.S. visa for a broad range of reasons — and only some of those would relate to innovation and job creation. But that flood of applicants would crowd an already overtaxed and underfunded higher education system in the U.S. which is already effectively making itself increasingly inaccessible to millions of U.S. college applicants and students.

  • jason

    In general, I agree strongly with the premise that the U.S. should change immigration policies in order to encourage more U.S.-educated students to stay here to innovate and create jobs. I also realize it's not a simple as “stapling a green card to their diploma,” but I strongly support the concept behind that. Beware the unintended consequence, however. Such a policy would likely create substantial demand for U.S. degrees by foreign citizens who want a U.S. visa for a broad range of reasons — and only some of those would relate to innovation and job creation. But that flood of applicants would crowd an already overtaxed and underfunded higher education system in the U.S. which is already effectively making itself increasingly inaccessible to millions of U.S. college applicants and students.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    Thanks Mark. Glad to be here in Montreal too. Yep, I not only survived, but I actually like the Winters here :)

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    Thanks Mark. Glad to be here in Montreal too. Yep, I not only survived, but I actually like the Winters here :)

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    What costs are you talking about? This is about less regulations, open the borders to immigrants with the potential to contribute to the economy as a whole… I don't think the INS will need any more tax funding. In the 90's they used to approve 200K work visas/yr, now it's limited to 65K. So there's room to grow without extra funding.

    Don't underestimate the innovation/entrepreneurship happening outside of Silicon Valley. There's a lot going on in Atlanta, Austin, Florida to name a few… So, Billy Bob in Alabama might very well get the benefits from this too.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    What costs are you talking about? This is about less regulations, open the borders to immigrants with the potential to contribute to the economy as a whole… I don't think the INS will need any more tax funding. In the 90's they used to approve 200K work visas/yr, now it's limited to 65K. So there's room to grow without extra funding.

    Don't underestimate the innovation/entrepreneurship happening outside of Silicon Valley. There's a lot going on in Atlanta, Austin, Florida to name a few… So, Billy Bob in Alabama might very well get the benefits from this too.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    Exactly. That's why I left. I could either wait 3-5 years for the green card, or have the freedom to start my business in Canada in less than 1.

  • http://twitter.com/twtfelipe Felipe Coimbra

    Exactly. That's why I left. I could either wait 3-5 years for the green card, or have the freedom to start my business in Canada in less than 1.

  • http://www.kidmercuryblog.com kidmercury

    i'd like to see a bill placed before congress related to this matter. then i'd like to see that bill thoroughly dissected. then we will know exactly what it costs, as well as what other expenses folks in congress will try to piggyback on it. the underlying issue is that the US government is fundamentally broken, especially at the national level.

  • http://www.kidmercuryblog.com kidmercury

    i'd like to see a bill placed before congress related to this matter. then i'd like to see that bill thoroughly dissected. then we will know exactly what it costs, as well as what other expenses folks in congress will try to piggyback on it. the underlying issue is that the US government is fundamentally broken, especially at the national level.

  • http://twitter.com/nickgiglia Nick Giglia

    Once again, we see an issue in which sloganeering and overgeneralization have proven easier for our elected officials than tangible action to address a real problem. How sad.

    I love Friedman's take on startups, because entrepreneurs are going to drive the next generation of the U.S. economy, as well as most other economies in the world (in some form or another). It used to be that students graduating from American colleges had more opportunity in the U.S. than their native countries, so it was never a question of whether or not they would stay after college was finished. Now, things are far more competitive across the globe, and we will need to do things such as stapling green cards to their diplomas, or other interesting ideas. One idea I heard (I'm pretty sure it was over on Fred Wilson's site) suggested a temporary residency visa in which foreign entrepreneurs would be granted permanent residency if they created a certain number of American jobs or generated a certain amount of wealth. This is a situation that benefits the economy and conjures up a different image than that of the script-following support staffer “taking the job” of an American worker.

    The U.S. is still in many ways the best country in the world to start a company. Unfortunately, things like erecting barriers and putting those asinine startup provisions in the proposed Dodd “reform” bill will only achieve the opposite.

    I think Friedman went too far when he suggested billions stimulus money should be thrown at startups, since the cold hard truth is that not every startup is worthy of or requires venture funding, and it would only encourage excessive risk or contribute to a new bubble. The government should, simply, make it as easy as they can for entrepreneurs, both foreign and native, to create jobs in the United States.

  • http://twitter.com/nickgiglia Nick Giglia

    Once again, we see an issue in which sloganeering and overgeneralization have proven easier for our elected officials than tangible action to address a real problem. How sad.

    I love Friedman's take on startups, because entrepreneurs are going to drive the next generation of the U.S. economy, as well as most other economies in the world (in some form or another). It used to be that students graduating from American colleges had more opportunity in the U.S. than their native countries, so it was never a question of whether or not they would stay after college was finished. Now, things are far more competitive across the globe, and we will need to do things such as stapling green cards to their diplomas, or other interesting ideas. One idea I heard (I'm pretty sure it was over on Fred Wilson's site) suggested a temporary residency visa in which foreign entrepreneurs would be granted permanent residency if they created a certain number of American jobs or generated a certain amount of wealth. This is a situation that benefits the economy and conjures up a different image than that of the script-following support staffer “taking the job” of an American worker.

    The U.S. is still in many ways the best country in the world to start a company. Unfortunately, things like erecting barriers and putting those asinine startup provisions in the proposed Dodd “reform” bill will only achieve the opposite.

    I think Friedman went too far when he suggested billions stimulus money should be thrown at startups, since the cold hard truth is that not every startup is worthy of or requires venture funding, and it would only encourage excessive risk or contribute to a new bubble. The government should, simply, make it as easy as they can for entrepreneurs, both foreign and native, to create jobs in the United States.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Your points about the “laws of unintentional consequences” are well taken. Obviously the banner “staple to every diploma” is extreme. The mentality of welcoming the best and brightest from around the world is not. As Friedman states, we need both the fix our education system AND welcome immigrants.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Your points about the “laws of unintentional consequences” are well taken. Obviously the banner “staple to every diploma” is extreme. The mentality of welcoming the best and brightest from around the world is not. As Friedman states, we need both the fix our education system AND welcome immigrants.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Yes, I'm not a proponent of the government throwing billions at startups, which is why I didn't highlight that bit. Thanks.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Yes, I'm not a proponent of the government throwing billions at startups, which is why I didn't highlight that bit. Thanks.

  • http://how2startup.com/ Roy Rodenstein

    Oi Felipe, como vai você? Congrats on TwtApps.
    Very interesting how you set up the freemium models for each one.

    I also see you are involved with Kiva, local entrepreneur organizations etc. I'm also an international entrepreneur (eu morei em Rio por um ano). I'll look you up when I visit Montreal :)

  • http://how2startup.com/ Roy Rodenstein

    Oi Felipe, como vai você? Congrats on TwtApps.
    Very interesting how you set up the freemium models for each one.

    I also see you are involved with Kiva, local entrepreneur organizations etc. I'm also an international entrepreneur (eu morei em Rio por um ano). I'll look you up when I visit Montreal :)

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