This Week in Venture Capital – Episode 2

by Mark Suster on April 14, 2010

I was on This Week in Venture Capital (TWiVC) again this week with Jason Calacanis.  He’s considering making me the permanent co-host so if you enjoy any of this episode or want to see me on the show on a more regular basis please Tweet @jason and let him know (he asked for direct feedback).  I’m loving doing the show and I think that Jason and I have pretty good banter and rapport.  You can watch this week’s TWiVC episode by clicking on the link and my summary notes are below. {if you missed Episode 1 it is here}

High Profile Deal of the Week:

1. TweetUp

This is “Adsense for Twitter.”  In fact, it is Overture 2.0.  Bill Gross is the man responsible for the overwhelming amount of monetization on the web.  Why?  Because GoTo.com was his idea.  It was the first company to do “paid search” back when Larry & Sergey were saying they would never do it.  Overture sold for $1.6 billion to Yahoo! (plus a large settlement on patent disputes paid from Google) so Bill did well on it.  But bill is a BIG idea guy.  He’s behind IdeaLab and has created many interesting companies including innovating in solar energy (eSolar) and electric cars (Aptera).

My take: Never bet against Bill Gross.  Especially when he’s surrounded by Danny Rimer (who funded Skype, MySQL, Last.FM and many, many more) plus Howard Morgan.  I respect everybody involved in this project.  That said I worry that V1 of the strategy isn’t a home run.  In some ways I see it as Overture V2 as in the weakest sense of the comparison.  Overture never built the destination site to monetize from.  In fact, their affiliate partners dissuaded them from doing so.  Google had huge destination traffic.  Google monetized this with AdWords (ads on their home page).  So when Google started pushing AdSense (ads for affiliate or 3rd party sites) they had a HUGE cost advantage.  They were able to “buy” the affiliate business because they had the Google.com cash cow.  They could take a long term view.

Enter TweetUp.  They want to monetize the Twitter stream via contextual search matching.  Um … that’s what Twitter just announced!  I know, I know, it’s different.  But Twitter.com (which will likely improve dramatically on UI, I’m guessing) will be the main event for Twitter search.  So when they fight for affiliate deals (Seesmic, TweetDeck, etc., etc.) it seems that Twitter should have the same Google-like cost advantage.  So my guess is that Tweetup needs to go “multi-stream” (as in Facebook, MySpace, etc.).

There is also another inherent weakness.  I don’t believe that search is the ONLY answer in 2010 as it was in 2000.  Now you follow people (publish & subscribe) and you click on the links they share.  Sure, you might search on Twitter.com but how many of you search in Tweetie or UberTwitter often?  Not me.  I think the best solution for the social networking era is “in-stream” advertising.  I won’t belabor this – I have an investment in this space (ad.ly) so I’m biased.  But I made it for a reason.  We pass links and that’s powerful.  Maybe even as powerful as search?

It’s true that Twitter has announced an enormous number of search queries (19 billion / month – astounding, huh?) and a number of these come from Seesmic and TweetDeck as Evan points out.  Some thoughts: 1) if it really is that substantial it validates my theory that Twitter will push to own the clients or at least where Tweets are consumed 2) it means that if Tweetup can assert itself in the Seesmic/TweetDeck sphere there really might be a high enough volume of queries to make money and 3) it’s not exactly all “true” search in the “discovery of new information” or “intent based advertising opportunity” sense.  Why?  Because I’m guessing at lot of it comes from queries to the API from saved searches people set up in Seesmic and TweetDeck.  Just a guess.  But if so this search traffic is less monetizable.

Finally, I HATE the name.  Golden rule of branding for me: 1) name your company or product your URL and 2) don’t paint yourself into a corner.  ”Tweet” = corner.  My bet: within 18 months they will change the name and go multi-stream.  Plus, a TweetUp already means a meet up in a city organized through Twitter.  Sounds like somebody didn’t do their homework on this name.  BUT.  I would never count Bill out.  He’ll pivot.  He’ll discover the value.  He’ll get deals done.

$3.5 mm in Series A;  IdealLab (Bill Gross), Index Ventures (Danny Rimer), Revolution LLC (Steve Case), First Round CapitalBetaWorksJason Calcanis

 

M&A Discussion

 

2. Atebits dba Tweetie (acquired by Twitter).  I think everybody heard about this acquisition.  Twitter bough their most used iPhone client.  No big surprise.  I talked about the platform moves of Twitter and why it should be expected.  Atebits had one person if I understand correctly.  They bought distribution and engineering talent.  If I were a betting man I’d say they paid sub $5 million.  Good deal for all.  Twitter also built a BlackBerry app making things difficult for TwitterBerry and UberTwitter.  Message of the week (from Fred Wilson) – “don’t fill cracks” but innovate in new ways with the platform.  I agree.

PLUS RELATED FUNDING

3. TweetPhoto - Real-time photo sharing platform.  I think this classifies as a “crack filler” and I’m not sure I would have done the investment for that reason.  That said, Photobucket was a “crack filler” that exited for $250 million to MySpace.  YouTube was a “crack filler” that could have been created by then dominant MySpace but wasn’t.  It kicked Google Video’s ass.  So they bought it for a cool $1.65 billion.  I know you could argue that YouTube was much broader but it was really popularized in the social networks.  So if TweetPhoto (bad name, again.  uh, hello!  is it not obvious to people to not name your company on somebody else’s product) can diversify and innovate maybe there’s room for growth.  But I’d say it’s a bigger risk than not that Twitter just does this (well) themselves.  It’s core platform stuff.

$2.6mm in Series ACanaanAnthem

Other Deals

4. Groupon - Hyper local same-day offers.  Wow.  WOW.  People are talking a rumored $1.2 billion valuation.  Shazaam.  They only recently raised $30 million at around a $300 million valuation and THAT raised eyebrows.  The investor isn’t disclosed (or I haven’t seen it) but it’s rumored to be DST, the Russian investors who invested in Zynga and Facebook (at a $10 billion valuation).  We had a big discussion about DST and why these investments.  On the founder’s side it’s about taking money off of the table and / or having strategic reserves for big acquisitions.  On DST’s side – they’ll either be seen as geniuses or fools.  In the former case many people scoffed at paying up for Google at IPO.  Genius.  Many other people over paid for Chemdex, VerticalNet, Pets.com, etc.  Fools.  Time will tell.  So far it seems the former.

$TBD mm in Series C; $1.2 billion pre-money.  Rumored: Digital Sky Technologies

5. Stitcher - San Francisco-based service that lets users customize talk radio programming on their mobile devices.  This follows on from a lot of interest in radio.  I especially like Jelli, which is user power radio.  You go onto the Internet and can control what people hear on terrestrial radio.  It’s sort of Jack FM meets Total Request Live meets UCG/Social Gaming (at least in the future).  There is a lot of interest in radio these days and another high profile deal in this sector is TargetSpot funded by USV.  It offers Internet radio targeted advertising and is growing really well.

$6mm in Series BBenchmark Capital (Bob Kagle); with participation from insiders New Atlantic Ventures and angels Ron Conway and Ed Scott

6. Tiny Speck Online gaming start-up.  I found this investment strange since normally VC’s hate to bet on gaming companies.  Maybe gaming platforms but not MMOG’s (massive multiplayer online games, as in World of Warcraft).  The reason is that like Hollywood these seem to require large up-front investments and seem to be hit driven.  That said, the founder is Stewart Butterfield, who co-founded Flickr.  The investors are some of the best in the Valley.  I’m guessing this is a bit on the “horse” but clearly they’ve also seen something in his vision.  In my mind, not a typical VC investment. But I look forward to seeing what they produce

$5mm in Series AAccel and Andreessen Horowitz

7. EdgeCast (competes with Akamai and Limelight).  This is a CDN (Content Delivery Network).  They help speed up the network by pushing the highly viewed and large media files to the “edge” of the network (e.g. closer to your house or work rather than at a centralized server).  I like EdgeCast and spent time with the management team.  I also really like the investors (I know and respect Steamboat).  I see this whole industry collapsing (in a good way) into the big telcos so I expect all three of these players to eventually be acquired.  The question will be “at what price?”  And for investors, “at what valuation did they get in?”

$10 million in Series B Menlo VenturesSteamboat

8. Quirky - Platform facilitating collaborative design of consumer products through an online community.  My take was that this follows three trends: a) customer involvement in product design, b) mass customization [e.g. Zazzle] and c) artisan products [etsy, foodzie].  On the first point – think of Steven Blank’s customer development but for physical products.  This deal mostly caught my eye because of the super smart people behind it.  Jim Robinson of RRE is a super smart guy and has made a lot of really insightful investments.  And Chris Sacca is also in the deal.

$6mm in Series ARRE Ventures (James Robinson, IV), Village VenturesContour Venture Partners, and Lowercase Capital

9. OTHER STUFF

In the interview we also covered:

- How are VC funds structured: closed-funds vs. evergreen funds?

- From whom do VC’s raise money and do those investors ever default on their commitments?

- How do founder get “liquidity” (e.g. money off the table) given the dearth of IPO’s and M&A over the past few years?

- Why did I found LaunchPad LA (versus just to TechStars LA or YCombinator LA)?

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  • http://www.noworkday.com Andrus

    Listed the first one and enjoyed. Downloading the second one at the moment to listen later.
    I'd personally would love to see you there every time.

  • http://www.noworkday.com Andrus

    Listed the first one and enjoyed. Downloading the second one at the moment to listen later.
    I'd personally would love to see you there every time.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Thank you, Andrus. We'll see …

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Thank you, Andrus. We'll see …

  • http://myOnePage.com/Oo OoTheNigerian

    I do not know if it only me but I cannot access the video.

  • http://myOnePage.com/Oo OoTheNigerian

    I do not know if it only me but I cannot access the video.

  • http://twitter.com/pjozefak Paul Jozefak

    Mark, I also can't get the video to work.

  • http://twitter.com/pjozefak Paul Jozefak

    Mark, I also can't get the video to work.

  • http://arnoldwaldstein.com awaldstein

    Mark…

    I say do the series!

    Some unfocused comments;)

    1. I applaud that you are summarizing the key points along with the video. I consult to some vbloggers in London as a mentor and that is my biggest pitch, push me into the video with some ideas when I'm in a rush.

    2. Some topics like TweetUp need a blog comment structure to flush out, so branching to a blog structure for the juicy ones is just smart.

    3. I agree, never bet against Bill Gross. I know him from if you can believe Knowledge Adventure. Idea after idea has always been his great gift.

  • http://arnoldwaldstein.com awaldstein

    Mark…

    I say do the series!

    Some unfocused comments;)

    1. I applaud that you are summarizing the key points along with the video. I consult to some vbloggers in London as a mentor and that is my biggest pitch, push me into the video with some ideas when I'm in a rush.

    2. Some topics like TweetUp need a blog comment structure to flush out, so branching to a blog structure for the juicy ones is just smart.

    3. I agree, never bet against Bill Gross. I know him from if you can believe Knowledge Adventure. Idea after idea has always been his great gift.

  • http://markgslater.wordpress.com/ markslater

    i think its a good match mark. I'd stalk you guys weekly.

  • http://markgslater.wordpress.com/ markslater

    i think its a good match mark. I'd stalk you guys weekly.

  • http://www.adcaptcher.com/ Razvan Tirboaca

    Mark, the link to the episode gives “403 – Forbidden” warning.

  • http://www.adcaptcher.com/ Razvan Tirboaca

    Mark, the link to the episode gives “403 – Forbidden” warning.

  • http://giffconstable.com giffc

    Thanks for the write-up, Mark. Watched and enjoyed the first one, but reading is much faster. Jason would be lucky to have you as a permanent co-host (can always get extra guests in as needed even if it mixes up the Charlie Rose thing he's going for). Quirky is the deal I am most intrigued by — I love how they've captured a passion, and a few of the products I've seen coming out of there are quite neat. I can see some hits emerging.

  • http://giffconstable.com giffc

    Thanks for the write-up, Mark. Watched and enjoyed the first one, but reading is much faster. Jason would be lucky to have you as a permanent co-host (can always get extra guests in as needed even if it mixes up the Charlie Rose thing he's going for). Quirky is the deal I am most intrigued by — I love how they've captured a passion, and a few of the products I've seen coming out of there are quite neat. I can see some hits emerging.

  • http://www.wehelpyourock.com/ Mike Walsh

    Mark – I love the show. I also like the format of your blog post in that you offer the video and summarize the show in your post. Groupon apparently has amazing revenue and profit numbers but huge valuation, no? What do you think will happen to Groupon competitors?
    mike

  • http://www.wehelpyourock.com/ Mike Walsh

    Mark – I love the show. I also like the format of your blog post in that you offer the video and summarize the show in your post. Groupon apparently has amazing revenue and profit numbers but huge valuation, no? What do you think will happen to Groupon competitors?
    mike

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Sorry about that. Changed the link – LMK if that works for you.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Sorry about that. Changed the link – LMK if that works for you.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Sorry, Paul. Changed link. Hope that helps.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Sorry, Paul. Changed link. Hope that helps.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Thanks, Mark.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Thanks, Mark.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Put a new link. Please try that one.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Put a new link. Please try that one.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Yeah, I'm a reader. But I'm fascinated by the idea of doing more Podcasts when I drive. Jason is smart to do that version, too.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Yeah, I'm a reader. But I'm fascinated by the idea of doing more Podcasts when I drive. Jason is smart to do that version, too.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    re: GroupOn competitors – hard to say. I was initially quite cynical. I talked with a very prominent VC who funded a “me, too” competitor. They told me it's been the fastest growing portfolio company in their past 5 years.

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    re: GroupOn competitors – hard to say. I was initially quite cynical. I talked with a very prominent VC who funded a “me, too” competitor. They told me it's been the fastest growing portfolio company in their past 5 years.

  • http://markgslater.wordpress.com/ markslater

    so i know a little bit about this having spent some time with an investor in one of their competitors last week. I think its a land grab situation – meaning that each city could potentially be a “one and done” type scenario.

    If that is the case – then you may see this valuation being on the back of some type of roll-up hypotheses in which case if you got in on the copy-cat investment – you might be headed for a quick exit.

  • http://markgslater.wordpress.com/ markslater

    so i know a little bit about this having spent some time with an investor in one of their competitors last week. I think its a land grab situation – meaning that each city could potentially be a “one and done” type scenario.

    If that is the case – then you may see this valuation being on the back of some type of roll-up hypotheses in which case if you got in on the copy-cat investment – you might be headed for a quick exit.

  • http://www.wehelpyourock.com/ Mike Walsh

    thanks Mark. there's certainly a ton of money in excess inventory – whether airline tickets, high end clothing or luxury hotels (Gilt Groupe), the local shops or even human resources; so I'm not surprised that there is enough inventory to support several businesses.

  • http://www.wehelpyourock.com/ Mike Walsh

    thanks Mark. there's certainly a ton of money in excess inventory – whether airline tickets, high end clothing or luxury hotels (Gilt Groupe), the local shops or even human resources; so I'm not surprised that there is enough inventory to support several businesses.

  • http://markgslater.wordpress.com/ markslater

    haha – did not read your post before i wrote mine – did we speak with the same firm?

  • http://markgslater.wordpress.com/ markslater

    haha – did not read your post before i wrote mine – did we speak with the same firm?

  • http://www.adcaptcher.com/ Razvan Tirboaca

    Nope, same thing.

    Hei everybody, it's just me who can't play the video/audio?

  • http://www.adcaptcher.com/ Razvan Tirboaca

    Nope, same thing.

    Hei everybody, it's just me who can't play the video/audio?

  • Michael Abehsera

    Hey Mark,
    I like your posts but its really a very big shame that you call ad.ly “the best solution for the social networking era” I know you invested in it but common its a pure joke, and its ruining every thing we love about social media, the only result that Ad.ly will give us is we loosing trust in people on social media sites. Ad.ly is not social media and was never SM, all it is is a pure form of people spamming their streams, social media is about building VALUE, raising awareness, and getting people to interact around a campaign and take action, if you want I can give you 100s of examples of successful SM campaigns so you can compare between “I want to listen” to “shit another ad that I dont need”.
    I wont go into to much details about why Ad.ly is really hurting social media, ill let these 3 articles do the job.
    Seth Godin http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2010/04
    http://searchengineland.com/is-trust-in-social-… very good post on how social media trust is dying because of startups like Ad.ly and the likes.
    http://eeden.org/blog/adly-ruining-social-media/

    Ad.ly is a great way to ride the trend of twitter with advertisers and make some money but please for your sake dont call this any thing close to a revolution or something thats changing the ad space like adsense did.

  • Michael Abehsera

    Hey Mark,
    I like your posts but its really a very big shame that you call ad.ly “the best solution for the social networking era” I know you invested in it but common its a pure joke, and its ruining every thing we love about social media, the only result that Ad.ly will give us is we loosing trust in people on social media sites. Ad.ly is not social media and was never SM, all it is is a pure form of people spamming their streams, social media is about building VALUE, raising awareness, and getting people to interact around a campaign and take action, if you want I can give you 100s of examples of successful SM campaigns so you can compare between “I want to listen” to “shit another ad that I dont need”.
    I wont go into to much details about why Ad.ly is really hurting social media, ill let these 3 articles do the job.
    Seth Godin http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/2010/04
    http://searchengineland.com/is-trust-in-social-… very good post on how social media trust is dying because of startups like Ad.ly and the likes.
    http://eeden.org/blog/adly-ruining-social-media/

    Ad.ly is a great way to ride the trend of twitter with advertisers and make some money but please for your sake dont call this any thing close to a revolution or something thats changing the ad space like adsense did.

  • shafqat

    Doesn't work for me either (tried the new link as well)

  • shafqat

    Doesn't work for me either (tried the new link as well)

  • shafqat

    Doesn't work for me either (tried the new link as well)

  • http://myOnePage.com/Oo OoTheNigerian

    Working!

  • http://myOnePage.com/Oo OoTheNigerian

    Working!

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Hmmm. Must be with their player. Trying going through this way: http://thisweekin.com/thisweekin-venture-capital/

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster

    Hmmm. Must be with their player. Trying going through this way: http://thisweekin.com/thisweekin-venture-capital/

  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster
  • http://bothsidesofthetable.com msuster
  • Jamal W

    Mark:
    Guy who worked in Pasadena at 130 Union Street here. I *think* you might have some arguments around your claim that Bill Gross invented PPC in your TweetUp post. You *might* want to ask Scott Banister how he feels about it. Just keeping it real here….

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